Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
By the way, I just found out that the NFL has a rule for the players for the National Anthem and Roger the commish refuses to enforce.
The NFL rulebook specifically requires both teams appear on the field for the playing of the anthem, standing, remaining quiet, and holding their helmets in their left hands. Failure to do so can result in fines, suspensions, and the loss of draft picks.
The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.
OK, I haven't read through the entire thread; if I'm being repetitious I apologize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
Most countries only play anthems in relation to International matches or major sporting occasions.
Football (Soccer) clubs often play the clubs anthem before games, an example would be Liverpool who sing 'You'll Never Walk Alone' before matches, but there are numerous other examples.
Really, so what? Should the US do everything the way Britain does? What other countries do you have personal knowledge of?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb
I think team anthems are fine.
But not the national anthem. How very interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb
Singing of the anthem at sporting events has not always been done. it really started after 9-11. So its not really a tradition.
Seriously? Did you not read your own link? "History records various games in which "The Star-Spangled Banner" was played dating from the mid-1800s, but Ruth's last postseason appearances for the Boston Red Sox coincided with the song's first unbreakable bond with the sports world, in 1918. . . . .Other major league teams noticed the popular reaction to "The Star-Spangled Banner" in 1918, and over the next decade it became standard for World Series and holiday games. In subsequent years, through subsequent wars, it grew into the daily institution we know today." Plus more examples: "Whitney Houston's rendition before Super Bowl XXV in 1991 has been a top-20 single not once but twice: first in 1991 during the Gulf War and again in 2001 after the 9/11 attacks. Sing it poorly, as Christina Aguilera can attest, and you're a national punch line. Spit and grab your crotch at the ending, as Roseanne Barr did in 1990, and the president himself will declare your performance "disgraceful." "
Frankly, I don't much care one way or the other, though I could do without all these colorguards from nearby military bases, etc that one sees at Broncos games. But good grief! The national anthem was sung before my kids' high school gymnastics meets.
I have actually stated an argument more than once.
We established a tradition of playing the NA and standing during ball games. This is why we do it during ball games and not for theatrical plays, movies, the opera, ballets, musical concerts, pie eating contests, three legged races.
So your entire argument is that we must do it because we have done it in the past? We used to have child labor, disenfranchised women and race based slavery. Must those things have been sustained on the basis of tradition?
I am looking for a reason that the nation would fall apart, or that patriotism would evaporate, as a consequence of having a ballgame without the anthem. Do you have any such reasons?
Quote:
Why the need to stop this long standing tradition and why compare it to standing for the NA in our homes or at plays, movies, opera, etc. If one wants to push to remove this particular tradition why stop there?
There is nor relation between ending the anthem tradition and terminating any other form of public patriotism. One may easily stop there.
And neither do the ungrateful full-grown players who are kneeling.... As one man (who happened to be black) said of the players, "They don't even know why they are kneeling." .... They are copying one another." How many of them served their country, or watch their friends die in the fields, getting their bodies blown apart? I can bet very few....
And neither do the ungrateful full-grown players who are kneeling.... As one man (who happened to be black) said of the players, "They don't even know why they are kneeling." .... They are copying one another." How many of them served their country, or watch their friends die in the fields, getting their bodies blown apart? I can bet very few....
Or, they know exactly why they were kneeling and the old man was wrong
The idea that only military veterans can have an opinion about this country is ludicrous. If soldiers are so thin-skinned and can't handle Americans using their rights, then they have no business serving in the first place.
I don't care either way to be honest, but if it's important to some I won't push to end it. How about anyone who wants to can come on the field and stand? Anyone who doesn't can stay wherever they are until it's over. No protesting, no posturing, and if fans want to question why their favorite players or coaches don't come out that's up to them. The relationships between the team and their fans is up to them, not me.
because when you are in person during the National Anthem, Church or funeral it's a sign of respect. You don't call negative attention on yourself because its NOT about you.....when you are in the privacy of your home you are not causing negative attention.
I thought not standing was disrespectful?
Quote:
especially when you are an employee of a company that has a long tradition of honoring the flag and national anthem to honor our veterans and active duty personel around the world like the NFL.
When you've been paid to honor the flag.
Quote:
I have gone in person to Vegas to the boxing fights and when they play the National Anthem of Mexico or any other country that the boxer is representing, I show respect to their national anthem and flag like I want the Mexican fans to show respect to our flag and national anthem when it's being played after theirs.....again, it a sign of respect just like in the Olympics.
what you do in your home is your personal business.....that's what I have been taught by my parents and that is what I teach my children, RESPECT!
OK, you feel it's OK to be disrespectful in your own home. Your call.
I don't care either way to be honest, but if it's important to some I won't push to end it. How about anyone who wants to can come on the field and stand? Anyone who doesn't can stay wherever they are until it's over. No protesting, no posturing, and if fans want to question why their favorite players or coaches don't come out that's up to them. The relationships between the team and their fans is up to them, not me.
Whenever my friends from Europe come to visit, they say it's creepy how often they see the US flag here. The only time you see flags in Europe is on government buildings or for a major national holiday.
And when were you in Europe to observe this? I don't remember seeing the flag in the European countries I've been in, but I don't remember not seeing it either. I do know that Canadians are big on displaying their Maple Leaf here in the US on all kinds of objects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb
It was always sung at certain games like the superbowl, world series etc, It wasn't sung before every single game like they do today until after 9-11. Thats when they really got the military involved as well.
Do read your link again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone
Garrison Keillor just did a piece on this very subject.
If the National Anthem is to be sung at ballgames, there needs to be audience participation, not just a solo.
Do you have a link to Keillor's piece? I heard a talk he gave once years ago about the national anthem; it was quite moving. I'll point out Keillor is no conservative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks
Why? The National Anthem glorifies war. I don't care what people think of me; war is something to be avoided at all costs. No matter what our lying politicians say, America is the most warmongering country in the world. My parents raised me here; where I was born wasn't my decision. America is a great country, but war and killing people is not what makes it great. Anyone who follows that twisted logic needs to have their head examined.
The national anthem is about the flag. "(M)ost warmongering country in the world", LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Our founding fathers were clear on the matter of free speech, standing up to tyranny, etc.
Hard to imagine that Ben Franklin would go along with what is happening now.
"It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins.” Benjamin Franklin
"Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins. Republics...derive their strength and vigor from a popular examination into the action of the magistrates." Benjamin Franklin
And my favorite:
"Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
People have used Franklin to oppose vaccine mandates, too. Franklin was no anarchist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glass_of_merlot
It's done in Sweden and Im sure all over Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
I've been to European soccer games. Unless they are playing a team from another country, I don't recall anyone singing a national anthem.
Funny you would respond like that to someone from Sweden, GotHere!
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-25-2017 at 03:27 PM..
As a European observer, this is how I see this topic from an outside perspective.
The patriotism in America is a unique phenomenon and is very different than in any other country in the world. Patriotism generally means being proud of ones's culture, ethnicity and sovereignty.
For instance: when an Italian man is being proud of his Italianness, the basis of his pride is their distinctive culture, traditions, ancestry and ethnicity in a Europe that consist of many different cultures and ethnicities that have been historically in a constant tension and war with each other for sovereignty. The radical form of this type of patriotism is the one we define as nationalism, when that Italian man is not just proud of his heritage but believes that his culture and the Italian ethnicity is inherently better than any other cultures and ethnicities.
The USA is a different beast altogether, because its very foundation stems from the diversity of cultures and ethnicities. Patriotism in the US is about certain ideas and moral codes on which the country was founded. Therefore, American people can't be nationalists in the classic sense.
This is why the flag has a very different meaning in a European country than in the US. In Europe, it is considered nationalistic to put your country’s flag on your home 365 days/year, we have our national celebrations for that. People who constantly wave a flag or put national symbols on their car are generally recognized to be supporters of a certain radical right wing political party.
In the US, the flag does not (ideally) separate people by political stances - with the flag on a home, the owner simply says that he believes in the ideas and moral principles that their country was built upon and he’s loyal to those principles.
So the American situation is very unique in this regard. As a European, I interpret the singing of the anthem in US sport events another form of the US way of putting a flag on private homes. It’s a ritual of social cohesion and a constant reminder of the mentioned principles. I see it as a highly useful and all-around positive social ritual and it has absolutely zero connection or resemblance with the European-style nationalistic practices.
These rituals of classic American patriotism are one of the most essential elements that make up the unique American way of life. That special social spirit and cohesion that can still be seen in the US’ everyday life – something that died out in Europe a long time ago – stems from the collective proudness and love for the American principles.
These days, I really worry about America, because I like the country and its people. I like how people (total strangers in many cases) talk to each other, care for each other and help each other in America, while this social spirit seems totally non-existent in Europe.
However, from this side of the pond, I see a strange new trend emerging in the last couple of years in the US. A trend to question everything that is uniquely American. Asking what's the point of this and that. Watch out Americans not to slowly make the bed of self-hatred like what we can see with some tired old countries in Western Europe.
For Christ’s sake, please don’t destroy eveything that makes your country such a cool place!
Thank you!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
