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Everyone who supports Single Payer needs to ask themselves what they plan to give up when the new 10% payroll tax kicks in...
The other little problem is the shortage of workers. Seriously, something like 35% of working-age adults are not in the labor base due to drug addictions. Those same people will demand care for their choices despite contributing near zero.
Liberals are bad at mathematics.
Do you have any idea how much employers pay in insurance premiums instead of paying a payroll tax right now? Replace the insurance premiums with a payroll tax and it will go a long way to provide health care for everyone. 35% of the American adult population are drug addicts and cant work as a result? Really?
Everyone who supports Single Payer needs to ask themselves what they plan to give up when the new 10% payroll tax kicks in...
The other little problem is the shortage of workers. Seriously, something like 35% of working-age adults are not in the labor base due to drug addictions. Those same people will demand care for their choices despite contributing near zero.
Liberals are bad at mathematics.
Nope, its conservatives who are bad a math. Conservatives are really great at keeping people poor, however. There is no question, US people are getting ripped off.
In answer to:
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Everyone who supports Single Payer needs to ask themselves what they plan to give up when the new 10% payroll tax kicks in...
they will "GIVE UP" paying premiums, copays, deductibles, balance billing and out-of-network worries - the cost of which is far in EXCESS of 10%.
Presently, with employer insurance, son/dil are paying over $14,000 a year for health coverage - $6,000 premium and $8k in deductible and out-of-pockets.
Those without employer-subsidized coverage and who also don't qualify for an ACA subsidy are being even more egregiously hurt. No way their taxes will increase to the level they are paying now for insurance, deductibles, copays, coinsurance. For some of these people, their premiums and deductibles are easily $25k/year.
Single-payer or Medicare for all would be the best thing financially for the consumer - hands down. Canadians pay with ALL taxes (including SS) and out-of-pocket health costs about $17,500/year with no worries about network and surprise bills.
The few older people I have spoken with find it a nuisance. My father and mother both pay for private so they can get fast, good quality care.
If your parents find it a "nuisance" they may have an Advantage plan rather than Original Medicare plus a Medigap. Advantage plans have provider and other restrictions which can be a nuisance - employer-sponsored retiree Advantage plans less so.
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Most people love Medicare - especially if they have Original Medicare with a Medigap. Medigaps pick up the 20% Medicare doesn't cover. Docs love the Medigaps because they don't need to chase people for their money.
If patients have a Medigap, there are no provider networks - see any Medicare doctor anywhere - and many, many people report they never see a doctor bill because between Medicare and the Medigap (depending on the plan), all Medicare-approved services are paid for. Their health costs are limited to insurance premium and copays for their medication.
Medicare is a wonderful thing. Time after time people on this board repeatedly report they "can hardly wait" until they are on Medicare - because it is so much less expensive - and hassle-free. And, once they're on Medicare, they love it.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 09-25-2017 at 11:24 PM..
He likely didn't pay into it nearly as much as he will take.
That's actually false. Most people now LOSE money on Social Security.
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"As recently as 1985, workers at every income level could retire and expect to get more in benefits than they paid in Social Security taxes, though they didn't do quite as well as their parents and grandparents.
Not anymore.
A married couple retiring last year after both spouses earned average lifetime wages paid about $598,000 in Social Security taxes during their careers. They can expect to collect about $556,000 in benefits, if the man lives to 82 and the woman lives to 85, according to a 2011 study by the Urban Institute, a Washington think tank.
Social Security benefits are progressive, so most low-income workers retiring today still will get slightly more in benefits than they paid in taxes. Most high-income workers started getting less in benefits than they paid in taxes in the 1990s, according to data from the Social Security Administration."
And as far as Medicare, which ISN'T free for seniors, they need to pay premiums, 80% copays, and/or buy supplemental insurance policies, and Medicare doesn't cover hearing, vision, or dental... There is no Medicare tax cap, so higher income earners lose money on that, as well. They'll never get back out what they've paid into it.
So are most old people finding that Medicare is nothing but a disaster for them?
It's costly for seniors. Like I said... They still need to pay monthly insurance premiums for Medicare, 80% copays, and/or buy supplemental insurance policies, and Medicare doesn't cover hearing, vision, or dental.
Some people have been brainwashed to not support unions unfortunately. Trade unions are the only real power workers have over owners. The ruling class know what they are doing.
We can have Medicare for All by doing one simple thing... implement a 25% VAT tax like many Scandinavian/European countries already have.
Here's how we get to that percentage...
Looking at the costs to the Fed Gov for Bernie Sanders' Medicare for All single-payer national health care, a liberal think tank, Urban Institute, has projected that it will cost the Fed Gov an additional $3.2 trillion per year ($32 trillion over 10 years) as costs are shifted away from employers, individuals, cities, and states, and onto the Fed Gov.
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"The increase in federal expenditures would be considerably larger than the increase in national health expenditures because substantial spending borne by states, employers, and households under current law would shift to the federal government under the Sanders [Medicare for All] plan. Federal expenditures in 2017 would increase by $1.9 trillion for acute care for the nonelderly, by $465.9 billion for those otherwise enrolled in Medicare, and by $212.1 billion for long-term services and supports.
In total, federal spending would increase by about $2.5 trillion (257.6 percent) in 2017. Federal expenditures would increase by about $32.0 trillion (232.7 percent) between 2017 and 2026. The increase in federal spending is so large because the federal government would absorb a substantial amount of current spending by state and local governments, employers, and households."
At the current annual US consumer spending level of $11.7 trillion, a 25% national VAT tax will raise $2.93 trillion in tax revenue. Almost enough, currently, to pay for single payer national health care for all. Adjust the VAT tax rate up or down as needed according to actual health care costs.
So... Are those who want single-payer Medicare for All on board with that? For paying a 25% VAT tax on everything, we can have it. Let's put it to a national referendum. Have the US voters vote on it in a federal election.
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
It's costly for seniors. Like I said... They still need to pay monthly insurance premiums for Medicare, 80% copays, and/or buy supplemental insurance policies, and Medicare doesn't cover hearing, vision, or dental.
Full private insurance for seniors would have 4-5 figure premiums every month, as seniors are uninsurable on the private market due to risk
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