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I know what 'white privilege' is supposed to mean, but the word 'privilege' implies something else --- born to or easy access to wealth, power, connections, silver spoon, summer homes, country clubs, etc..
IMO, whoever coined the phrase 'white privilege' made a mistake by not using 'advantage.' Though some people for some reasons deny a white advantage exists, 'privilege' makes the concept harder to swallow.
If you know what it means then there should be no huge discussions trying to act like you don't know what it means or that it exists.
And there actually have been many phrases to describe what is now called "white privilege" (which that term began to be used I believe in the 1980s).
I study a lot of the works of WEB DuBois and he used a phrase called "psychological wage" to describe the use of white supremacy ideology by whites directed at blacks in America in the early 20th century.
Here's a good article about the origins of the phrase "white privilege." It mentions WEB DuBois' concept as well: The Origins of Privilege
Quote:
The idea of “privilege”—that some people benefit from unearned, and largely unacknowledged, advantages, even when those advantages aren’t discriminatory —has a pretty long history. In the nineteen-thirties, W. E. B. Du Bois wrote about the “psychological wage” that enabled poor whites to feel superior to poor blacks; during the civil-rights era, activists talked about “white-skin privilege.”
If you know what it means then there should be no huge discussions trying to act like you don't know what it means or that it exists.
And there actually have been many phrases to describe what is now called "white privilege" (which that term began to be used I believe in the 1980s).
I study a lot of the works of WEB DuBois and he used a phrase called "psychological wage" to describe the use of white supremacy ideology by whites directed at blacks in America in the early 20th century.
Here's a good article about the origins of the phrase "white privilege." It mentions WEB DuBois' concept as well: The Origins of Privilege
well, if this is your logic, maybe you should not tell a white person he or she has white privilege. Should they make that decision themselves?
If a white person believes he has white privilege, then fine by me. If he doesn't believe in white privilege, who am I to tell him he does since I am not him?
I will only address the bold. I've never tried to tell you it was not racial profiling. You might want to go back and read it again.
This is what I said
This said, the problem is, when cops pull over black drivers, they are more likely to misinterpret behavior or other signals as grounds for suspicion--or they're more biased/prejudiced. It is one or the other. But again, a lot of information is missing here, so it's probably hasty to pin it all on bigotry.
Also, a lot of police officers are eager to move up in rank.
hard to say why you have been stopped so often, other than that there are undoubtedly a range of causes rather than one neat reason.
I understood what you are saying. I specifically responded (again) to the "hard to say" comment, bolded above in that I know why I was stopped - it was because I was black and drove through the neighborhood. They stopped a lot of black people for no reason. Due to no reason being given and all of a sudden it stopping when I provided my credentials and made a complaint to my neighborhood beat commander, means that it was because I was black. It was racial profiling and specifically was done by 2 officers on our beat.
Even if they were eager to move up rank, that is no reason to stop someone for no reason at all. They also were not stopping white drivers through the neighborhood as often who bought drugs so if they were looking for more prestige due to more stops/arrests, it would make sense to stop more white people too (note I had access to all the statistics of our neighborhood by LE and reviewed them, very rarely were whites stopped at all - usually only for car accidents were reports/interactions taken/occurred even though they were the main users of drugs in that area and after we asked the beat commander to stop the users, their reporting increased for white drivers and arrests increased for weapons and drugs in the possession of white drivers).
But I will note I disagree on the bold. Those stereotypes have been around for blacks since the 17th century. None of them are new and they are just continously perpetuated in our country and they are based on a white supremacist racist worldview, something, that again is pervasive in our society.
Asians are not black and so their experiences cannot be compared to blacks in America. But I'll note that in 17th and 18th century America, SE Asians in particular (Asian Indians) were considered black and were subject to racist "black codes" and other racist treatment.
On the blue, I think you ignore the history of our country. Facts are that income and education has risen dramatically since the climax of the CRM for blacks in t his country, yet still Americans think we are all dumb and poor and mostly live in inner cities. They believe that because they are ingrained with that old racist ideology. Racism is hard to let go and laws being passed doesn't mean that ideas and behaviors of the populace automatically disappear. There are areas across the country right now where blacks have more education and higher incomes than Asians, yet people in those areas still think poorly of blacks in regards to the 17th century stereotypes of us being ignorant, lazy, and criminally prone.
It is not just about income inequality. FWIW, historically that idea was also one that was held by many communist and socialist minded black activists in the early to mid 20th century. Many black activists of that era felt that the only way to end racism would be to make everyone the same class. However, if you look at communist societies around the world, even in Cuba or the former USSR or China, racial stereotyping of people did not decrease with income equality. Stereotyping and racism are a psychological and sociological issue of a particular country/community/society. Unless those who continue to perpetuate said stereotypes want to rid themselves and their families of them, those stereotypes will continue to exist. Hell you can look at the stereotypes of Muslims here in particular. Most Muslims in America are peaceful people and are highly educated and wealthy (especially those I know) yet a large amount of Americans continue to claim they are "terrorist" or "terrorist sympathizers" or are evil in some way. It is not the fault of the Muslims that other people think of them that way. Just like it is not the fault of black people that others think of them in negative ways. Personally, I don't care too much what any non-black person feels about me as a black person as long as their feelings/ideas don't lead to actions that negatively impact me (like the police harassment thing - that is why it continues to be an issue for blacks BTW - because it continues to impact us).
Stereotypes change as income inequality and education levels change. You talk about Asian Indians, but legislation was passed to specifically ban Chinese from immigrating to America not too long ago and the "yellow peril" was seen as real. The Irish were treated terribly as well. They were part of the underclass and working class and plenty of rich Irish suffered as a result of that. But education levels and income levels changed over time.
You talk about Muslims being stereotyped by black and white Americans as terrorists but religious cults would also be stereotyped if they were overrepresented in certain actions. Bike gangs might be mostly peaceful but some bad apples make it tough for innocent bike gang members as well. Its just what it is.
If you look at Cuba, its far from the case that black people have the same education levels and class as non-blacks. So naturally, stereotypes persist. Very different from Asians in America who are NOT overrepresented among the underclass like African Americans. Fighting for a proper public safety net, better worker's rights, stronger trade unions, a national health care system and more educational opportunities for people in general is by far the best way to combat these stereotypes you talk about because they are CLASS based. But the ruling class dont want people to become class conscious. Thats a threat. Thats why you see CNN (owned by the top 0.01%) focus on race, not class.
I understood what you are saying. I specifically responded (again) to the "hard to say" comment, bolded above in that I know why I was stopped - it was because I was black and drove through the neighborhood. They stopped a lot of black people for no reason. Due to no reason being given and all of a sudden it stopping when I provided my credentials and made a complaint to my neighborhood beat commander, means that it was because I was black. It was racial profiling and specifically was done by 2 officers on our beat.
Even if they were eager to move up rank, that is no reason to stop someone for no reason at all. They also were not stopping white drivers through the neighborhood as often who bought drugs so if they were looking for more prestige due to more stops/arrests, it would make sense to stop more white people too (note I had access to all the statistics of our neighborhood by LE and reviewed them, very rarely were whites stopped at all - usually only for car accidents were reports/interactions taken/occurred even though they were the main users of drugs in that area and after we asked the beat commander to stop the users, their reporting increased for white drivers and arrests increased for weapons and drugs in the possession of white drivers).
That is why it's probably hasty to pin it all on bigotry.
The problem is multilayered. They need better training, police force should not be militarized. (they are not the Army or the Marine corps) war on drugs is a failure. We also need better screening process to get rid of the racists, and the mentally sick people, the bullies and psychos.
I will only address the bold. I've never tried to tell you it was not racial profiling. You might want to go back and read it again.
This is what I said
This said, the problem is, when cops pull over black drivers, they are more likely to misinterpret behavior or other signals as grounds for suspicion--or they're more biased/prejudiced. It is one or the other. But again, a lot of information is missing here, so it's probably hasty to pin it all on bigotry.
Also, a lot of police officers are eager to move up in rank.
hard to say why you have been stopped so often, other than that there are undoubtedly a range of causes rather than one neat reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
well, if this is your logic, maybe you should not tell a white person he or she has white privilege. Should they make that decision themselves?
If a white person believes he has white privilege, then fine by me. If he doesn't believe in white privilege, who am I to tell him he does since I am not him?
Left side of mouth - don't tell white people about their privilege. Let them tell you
Right side of mouth - black person, those might not be the reasons you were stopped. Maybe these are also reasons.
Left side of mouth - don't tell white people about their privilege. Let them tell you Right side of mouth - black person, let me tell me some of the reasons you might have been stopped by police.
You can't make this **** up
i've never said the bold, you are the one making this up.
With an attitude like yours, nothing will be solved. You are a white male, you check your own privilege, I get that. What more do you need? I've never told you what to do.
Since when
a lot of information is missing here, so it's probably hasty to pin it all on bigotry. = denying social injustice exists
It seems the police would not be following procedure making a traffic stop for No Reason. No tail light out, no robbery nearby, no traffic violation... I don't know formal procedures everywhere now but do they not have to call in the stop and have a record of why they are stopping people? Just wondering, because back in the day in my area they wouldn't call it in half the time, they would just use their lights and sirens and stop us to lecture or yell at us and flash their flashlights around our cars looking for weed or beer. There were three or four cops who were famous for it. Sometimes they would take long haired guys to the station and beat on them just for entertainment. They didn't do it to blacks, Hispanics or bikers, they were shy of bothering minorities whereas hippies and teenagers were soft targets.
Left side of mouth - don't tell white people about their privilege. Let them tell you
Right side of mouth - black person, let me tell you some of the reasons you might have been stopped by police.
You can't make this **** up
Absolutely.
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