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Old 09-29-2017, 08:14 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,878,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Of course they do.. anytime Trump is out there they make up a negative story .. nothing good.

Trump giving his money gets a negative rap. It is so predictable. He had two scoops of ice cream.. so bad
Oh, I don't think they need to look hard for negative stories about Trump. His donations were reported on. His lying about who would be helped by repealing the estate tax was reported on. His tweets about NFL players were reported. You don't think any of these things are negative. Some people think it's a mixed bag. You shouldn't make assumptions about everyone else.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,094,955 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Of course they do.. anytime Trump is out there they make up a negative story .. nothing good.

Trump giving his money gets a negative rap. It is so predictable. He had two scoops of ice cream.. so bad
I don't think you understood my point, so let me make is as simple as I can make it:

The NFL is not being destroyed by anyone.

If fans don't like the protests, they can stop watching. It's no one's fault. The players are exercising their right to protest. You can say the media is the problem here if you want, but that's just silly frankly. If there wasn't outrage on both sides, the media wouldn't cover it. That's a fact. If no one cared, it would not make the news. But people apparently do. They care because it's easy to follow. As I said, tax code is hard. Football is easy. CNN knows that. Fox knows that. Anyone with a brain knows that.

I blame you for this more than anything. You're the one who started a threat about America values, and yet here you are talking about sports. If people like you didn't exist, constantly talking about your disapproval of sports players making political statements you don't like (how tragic when your god issues a commandment you don't like) and throwing a fit about it, this wouldn't even be a controversy. Big picture, why does it even matter? Some kneeling isn't destroyed the NFL. A boycott might. not that the boycott lasted. That Steelers player who stayed standing quickly grew to have the fastest selling jersey. Again, this entire issue is stupid-bait. Which is exactly why it's on the news. This isn't a left/right issue; its a political/apolitical issue. Apolitical controversies have been made political because there's virtually know standard set for knowledge coming in. Which is why superficial bull**** makes the news more than substantive policy; it can appeal to a wider audience. And you can still peg that on the left, but every time a stupid stories is published, the right wing spreads it around. Which means ad revenue which was the only goal anyway. They're playing YOU!
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:18 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,878,374 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
From my point of view, kneeling during the playing of our national anthem, and in view of our flag, which is by definition a symbol of unity, insinuates a sense of mourning or sorrow to an event which is meant to signify our sense of oneness as Americans. Engaging in a strikingly visual act like kneeling or sitting while the rest of our fellow citizens stand and place their hands over their hearts (the traditional sign of respect and commitment to equality and good citizensbip while the anthem is played is to my mind, a selfish and divisive act. It is analogous to utterng an obscenity at a solem public event like a wedding or funeral, or scrawling graffiti in an inappropriate place. Demonstrations of one's dissatisfaction with our country should not br expressed during ceremonies of national unity.
I appreciate your perspective, however, kneeling in silence is not analogous to uttering an obscenity at a solemn public event. Kneeling in silence does insinuate a sense of mourning or sorrow, but it's a respectful act. The problem with "the traditional sign of respect and commitment to equality and good citizenship" is that it is also an affirmation that those ideals are being attained. The players are drawing our attention to the fact that we are not meeting the goal of equality in our society. They are refusing to affirm that it is being attained.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,330,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I appreciate your perspective, however, kneeling in silence is not analogous to uttering an obscenity at a solemn public event. Kneeling in silence does insinuate a sense of mourning or sorrow, but it's a respectful act. The problem with "the traditional sign of respect and commitment to equality and good citizenship" is that it is also an affirmation that those ideals are being attained. The players are drawing our attention to the fact that we are not meeting the goal of equality in our society. They are refusing to affirm that it is being attained.
I would ask that you consider that the anthem and its attending traditional signs of respect contain within them the acknowledgement that our country is not perfect -- only a very shallow person would think so -- but that it remains a shining example of hope amd progress. Dividing us by using patriotic symbols as a forum for dissent is inappropriate and contributes nothing to sincere efforts to achieve a more kust society. I continue to believe that only by standing united can we achieve true "liberty and justice for all."
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,538,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Destruction of America and It's Values From Within
Yep!

It's coming from RW hate radio, Russian trolls and the fools who willingly swallow their swill.

Carry on.

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Old 09-29-2017, 09:24 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,369,227 times
Reputation: 22904
May I politely suggest that all of you join me for a media-free October? Free your mind from the outrage machine. Spend time with family and friends. Enjoy the change of seasons. Get cracking on that to-do list. Read some good books. Cook great meals. Go to bed early and get a good night's rest. A digital sabbatical will do great things for your mental health and leave you more optimistic about the world and your place in it.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:25 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,878,374 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I would ask that you consider that the anthem and its attending traditional signs of respect contain within them the acknowledgement that our country is not perfect -- only a very shallow person would think so -- but that it remains a shining example of hope amd progress. Dividing us by using patriotic symbols as a forum for dissent is inappropriate and contributes nothing to sincere efforts to achieve a more kust society. I continue to believe that only by standing united can we achieve true "liberty and justice for all."
A shining symbol of hope and progress. A symbol. And that hope doesn't get fulfilled by symbols. I don't feel divided by protest. I think using patriotic symbols for protest is appropriate. Protest is part of our heritage. It is the point of freedom of speech. And in this case the athletes are showing nothing but respect when they kneel in silence. They are upholding the values and principles of this nation. Without violence. Without damage. If we are to be the great nation our principles promise, then we have to be engaged as a nation when we falter. The players are using the forum they have available to engage us, and frankly, I think they are being successful. Standing united does not mean standing in neat little rows, saluting on command. Standing united means working together the best way we know how. And the players are doing that.
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Old 10-01-2017, 04:24 PM
 
5,462 posts, read 3,036,089 times
Reputation: 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I appreciate your perspective, however, kneeling in silence is not analogous to uttering an obscenity at a solemn public event. Kneeling in silence does insinuate a sense of mourning or sorrow, but it's a respectful act. The problem with "the traditional sign of respect and commitment to equality and good citizenship" is that it is also an affirmation that those ideals are being attained. The players are drawing our attention to the fact that we are not meeting the goal of equality in our society. They are refusing to affirm that it is being attained.
When Nadal and Djokovic played a 6 hour final in Australian open, they still stood and listened to KIA chairman's speech during trophy presentation . They were nearly falling until they were given a seat by the sponsors.

That is showing respect and it deserves respect back.
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Old 10-01-2017, 04:36 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
So many of these liberals were influenced by communists in their early years of adulthood. Hillary to name one.

How much was Con(man) Trump influenced by trusted advisor and avowed Leninist Stephen Bannon?
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Old 10-01-2017, 04:42 PM
 
587 posts, read 304,925 times
Reputation: 489
100% of our problems are found in our state capitols and Washington D.C take care of them and things will return to better than normal ..

Congress has failed when that happens its time to roll in the National Guard and begin arresting them because they have committed Treason and are in full Violation of the constitution and our laws..
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