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Again, the Labor Force Participation Rate is only 62.9%, about 150 million, many employed only part-time. You can't fund health care for all 320 million on only the backs of workers. It would have to be funded by all. A 25% VAT tax would do it. That would also capture tax revenue from those who earn their income illicitly, and neither report their income to nor file taxes with the IRS. Examples: drug dealers, illegal aliens working for cash, etc.
you are correct about the consumption tax...it could raise the revenue up to about 5 trillion
but the consumption tax should be the only tax...have it REPLACE the income/corporate/estate/luxury taxes/payroll(fica)
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
didn't buy too much house...its a tiny house...bought in 1995 for 150k.....the taxes are based on they THINK they want to ''value'' it at 450k..ergo 12k in property taxes...as I said the biggest portion of the tax is the school tax....I paid it off years ago
BTW, I own a house in NC also..4000sf, on a full acre.. paid 175k for
the prop taxes on it....less than 2k
I still have a very few (3-5) years before I retire and leave the hell hole of NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751
Lets say you invest in T which currently pays a quarterly dividend of $0.49. Todays price is $39.04
At todays share price you'd need to invest $239,020.00 to be paid enough dividend income to pay $12k NY taxes.
At todays share price you would need to invest $39,837.00 in T stock to pay enough in dividend income to pay your NC tax bill.
Thats a $199,183 difference that you need to invest.
Naturally I'm just using T as an example. I'm tired, so please check my numbers but I'm sure you get my point. Heres a cool tool to tell you how much you need to invest to pay you x amount of yearly dividends. You put in the stock ticker for a given company as well as how much income you want to receive from dividends.
So with the above post in mind workingclasshero you would need almost $200k more invested at yesterday's stock price in T (as an example) just to pay your yearly NY taxes and that's depending on T not dropping their dividend.and that's not including calculation your federal taxes due for that year comparative to moving to NC in which you need $39,837.00 invested at yesterdays stock price to pay NC taxes. How much do you have to work to be able to put aside an additional $200k for retirement just to pay their taxes?
Off the bat 22K comes off for the standard deduction. Then take out 12 K of income not taxed. Down to 46K
I erred on the original calculation. I had heard the standard deduction would increase and then you double it. That was wrong.
Here is my calculation again.
I believe those should be - 60K and under -- 12%
60k and over to 220K 25%
220K and up 35%
This is how someone would win. Right now the first 6K of income is not taxed. That would be increased to 12 percent (so imho) that would take care of the exemptions. In addition as this probably will be a more simple code, you won't need a tax prep service $220 fee saved.
So assuming I am single and have 80K gross per year. Off the bat 22K comes off for the standard deduction. Then take out 12 K of income not taxed. Down to 56K
Assume a 12 % rate -- taxes 6720
Assume a 25% rate - 14000 (about 3K more per year.)
This is what it does though that I think is good.
- provides an incentive for people to pay off their mortgages early, leading to less chance of a financial crisis.
- Provides a way to stop the "flipping of houses" which some say is the real reason for the financial crisis.
- Yes we don't need anyone having a ton of kids and, if they do they should pay for it.
- In incentiveizes people to move away from over crowded cities and expensive states.
- It makes the code less complex so you don't have to pay someone to do it. - Provides incentives to rent rather that buy... which has made some of the rental REITs go way up.
This is what it does though that I think is good.
- provides an incentive for people to pay off their mortgages early, leading to less chance of a financial crisis.
People today say they'll never be able to retire and typically many could not handle paying a mortgage on retirement income so yes, encouraging being mortgage free is good. Remember, we could PLAN to retire at 62 or 65 but does anything really go as planned? You could get sick at 59 yo. This is part of the problem, people think short term and go about life as if they'll always be healthy. Politicians think short term because their re-election bid is always right around the corner.
A mortgage and taxes are an expense but you can only get rid of one, the other, you are at the mercy of politicians and people supporting them in raising taxes, they're not thinking or caring about you being able to retire. I'm sure we've all heard about elderly people who are mortgage free but can't pay their taxes losing their house, others forced into debt or reduction of equity / reverse mortgages.
When we bought and with this in mind we moved to a lower tax area. After we no longer work and depend on SS and investment income, because we moved to a lower tax area our income needs are lower. If we had stayed in the higher tax area we would have needed more money invested to meet our income needs.
For financially independent people, their assets generate income and/or cash flow from dipping into the assets that is at least as great as their expenses. The higher these expenses are, the more assets you'll need to generate enough income to pay them. Reducing expenses (including tax a tax liability) moves people closer to being able to retirement.
Okay now you lost me... I thought Graham-Cassidy, even if it had a tax component, was already off the table.
Also, you're a friggin' tax attorney and CPA? What took you so long????? We coulda used you from day 1 of this thread.
I avoid these discussions. I don't do work unless I'm billing time
In the long run, it doesn't matter whether or not Graham-Cassidy is approved or not. It's more like a reflection of what legislators want, and that is what I focus on. It's like getting a peek at their cards; this will come back in one way or another.
I erred on the original calculation. I had heard the standard deduction would increase and then you double it. That was wrong.
Here is my calculation again.
I believe those should be - 60K and under -- 12%
60k and over to 220K 25%
220K and up 35%
This is how someone would win. Right now the first 6K of income is not taxed. That would be increased to 12 percent (so imho) that would take care of the exemptions. In addition as this probably will be a more simple code, you won't need a tax prep service $220 fee saved.
So assuming I am single and have 80K gross per year. Off the bat 22K comes off for the standard deduction. Then take out 12 K of income not taxed. Down to 56K
Assume a 12 % rate -- taxes 6720
Assume a 25% rate - 14000 (about 3K more per year.)
This is what it does though that I think is good.
- provides an incentive for people to pay off their mortgages early, leading to less chance of a financial crisis.
- Provides a way to stop the "flipping of houses" which some say is the real reason for the financial crisis.
- Yes we don't need anyone having a ton of kids and, if they do they should pay for it.
- In incentiveizes people to move away from over crowded cities and expensive states.
- It makes the code less complex so you don't have to pay someone to do it. - Provides incentives to rent rather that buy... which has made some of the rental REITs go way up.
All of these things are positive for america.
so it's good to raise taxes on middle class but cut for upper class?
why are we incenting people to move away from crowded expensive states? I thought we wanted government out of our lives, now through fiscal coercion we are being told where to live? Most of those high tax states are also high income states. In my industry I can only work in NY/NJ/CT, how does moving to MS to save on state tax work for me? Wall St and Silicon Valley are in tow highest taxed states and drive our current economy, so now where looking to hurt the people that make up those industries so they can go move to compete for all those MV coal jobs Trump is supposedly bringing back? Lose those two and watch how the US falls....
Why are we incentivizing people to rent over buying a home? Isn't creating equity through a sort of forced savings plan a good thing, considering most renters don't invest or save the difference as well as hurting real estate market? Renters are much more at risk for inflation than home owners locked into a 30 yr fixed loan.
One of the biggest problems in many first world industrialized nations is declining birth rate, now again through financial coercion the party of limited small government and "freedom" as well as the party who opposed contraception is looking to limit how many children middle class families have?
As for less complex code, I paid 40 bucks for Turbo tax and itemized and took basis for investments, took me an hour. I'll trade that for taking 10 min but paying thousands more as initial analysis I've seen shows family of 4 on income under 100K paying 4K more on average while those making much more see sizeable cuts.
so it's good to raise taxes on middle class but cut for upper class?
why are we incenting people to move away from crowded expensive states? I thought we wanted government out of our lives, now through fiscal coercion we are being told where to live? Most of those high tax states are also high income states. In my industry I can only work in NY/NJ/CT, how does moving to MS to save on state tax work for me? Wall St and Silicon Valley are in tow highest taxed states and drive our current economy, so now where looking to hurt the people that make up those industries so they can go move to compete for all those MV coal jobs Trump is supposedly bringing back? Lose those two and watch how the US falls....
Why are we incentivizing people to rent over buying a home? Isn't creating equity through a sort of forced savings plan a good thing, considering most renters don't invest or save the difference as well as hurting real estate market? Renters are much more at risk for inflation than home owners locked into a 30 yr fixed loan.
One of the biggest problems in many first world industrialized nations is declining birth rate, now again through financial coercion the party of limited small government and "freedom" as well as the party who opposed contraception is looking to limit how many children middle class families have?
As for less complex code, I paid 40 bucks for Turbo tax and itemized and took basis for investments, took me an hour. I'll trade that for taking 10 min but paying thousands more as initial analysis I've seen shows family of 4 on income under 100K paying 4K more on average while those making much more see sizeable cuts.
Higher tax state, high cost of living state, higher income states which puts you into higher income brackets federally. wow, you got it coming at you from all ends. I don't live in NY and neither of us work in the coal industry... My company is world wide but we have to compete against companies that pay lower taxes and are not as small anti-business as this country.
So what's up with the coal job assumption? Was it meant as yet another insult coming from the coastal as if "as we heard many times from the media and Democrats" we are a bunch of uneducated, coal slinging deplorable's. Yes, that attitude toward us was so endearing and surely convinced us to vote for your regional candidate <sarcasm>.
And I covered that in my post. Some people think just because someone makes $400k in one tax year that makes them rich, Obama, Democrats and the liberal media promoted that lie. Oh come on, you surely remember "raise taxes on the rich, people making $400k a year".
No, I'm saying you misinterpreted his point. He didn't say people making $400k are rich. He said people making $400k are more likely to be rich than people who make $50k, $100k, or anything under $400k. Fair assumption. Does it mean EVERYONE making $400k is rich? No... again, that's not what he said.
Also, what DO you consider rich? You keep saying "liberal elites" in NY/CA like everyone living there is rich or owns a mansion and yet you're insisting here $400k salary doesn't make a person rich. The vast majority of people in those states are making less than $400k.
No, I'm saying you misinterpreted his point. He didn't say people making $400k are rich. He said people making $400k are more likely to be rich than people who make $50k, $100k, or anything under $400k. Fair assumption. Does it mean EVERYONE making $400k is rich? No... again, that's not what he said.
I said that just because someone makes $400k in one tax year, it doesn't mean they are rich but that didn't stop Democrats and Obama from using the class warfare card against those people who are typically small business owners, doctors etc, all of who are hard working and aren't exactly flying around in private jets with mulitple luxury cars sitting in the 6 car garage like the glitzy rich do.
Even at $400k it still would take many, many years to build up net worth / wealth, especially if you are conducting business under a president and a party in power who knows the middle class is tapped out so you are now in the bulls eye for the fleecing while they demonize you... and all the while the truly wealthy with the right type of income, with their tax attorneys etc.. skirt out of paying higher taxes.
Geez, Obama was really able to play the masses as fools because their lack of financial understanding who think they understand because the media said so (and should I say jealousies or is calling that out not PC?) Are people so naive to think that if it hit the rich they would support it? Of course not. Trump's proposing the take away the real estate tax deduction tells us they don't believe what they preach.
Last edited by petch751; 09-29-2017 at 10:57 AM..
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