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Old 09-29-2017, 05:21 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,003 posts, read 12,588,356 times
Reputation: 8921

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2035 or 2040. Few can say what things will be like then.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:24 AM
 
45,220 posts, read 26,431,296 times
Reputation: 24974
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
Representatives are voted into power in the U.S. we are a republic, so if our representatives present something that means we voted for it. Even if you may not have voted for it, that is how our democracy works.
Yeah they teach all that in elementary school, bad as that is, reality doesnt work that way. The reps do what they want regardless of any plattform they run on or what any voter wants. Even still, why should everyone be forced into buying a zero emission vehicle (even the name is a lie) at gunpoint? New internal combustion cars don't pollute!
I feel sorry for the remaining sane people in CA that are being ruled over by lunatic fringe.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:25 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,607,699 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
An oil refinery mainly separates crude oil into components.

A petrochemical plant is able to convert crude into the more profitable end products.

If gasoline becomes less desirable then industry can quickly adapt current facilities.

Burning immense amount of liquid petroleum in the form of gasoline is extremely wasteful of a limited commodity.

If your goal is to maintain long term gasoline supplies, having more electric cars is a very good thing.
Gasoline is a byproduct of the distillation of oil. You end up with it no matter what. So, when you are making all those wonderful resins, you have to deal with gasoline.

Right now, they get to sell the gasoline byproduct and make lots of money. If they have to pay to dispose of millions upon millions of gallons of gas, the price of all the other products we get from oil will go up in price big time.

Back when they distilled oil for kerosene and lubricants, when there was very little use for gas, they would burn it in open pits. That can't be done now.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,362 posts, read 19,149,932 times
Reputation: 26249
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
https://futurism.com/california-is-c...electric-cars/

California Air Resources Board eyes future ban on gas-powered engines | The Sacramento Bee

The business environmental elite is at it again. First, it was plastic bag fees and certain cities banning plastic bags and now I guess they want to ban diesel and gas powered cars.


California is considering a ban on sale of gas and diesel cars to meet climate goals.

I wonder how this helps the working-class who live paycheck to paycheck who want a car to get them to work.

Many people starting out just an old car to get them from their house to work. Electric cars are not cheap and I wonder about the productivity of an older-model electric car's battery
I think Cali should do it and make it effective manana.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,724,472 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Actually Californians want that. There are too many low paid workers there now. They want the high tech types who can easily afford the tiny bit extra to get an electric car.

As for those high pollution starter cars, people can take buses so this will have to be combined with a program for more public transportation using electric buses.
Except when it comes to field hands, maids and landscapers, roofers,
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,230 posts, read 18,571,948 times
Reputation: 25799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
Representatives are voted into power in the U.S. we are a republic, so if our representatives present something that means we voted for it. Even if you may not have voted for it, that is how our democracy works.
We don't live in a "democracy", we live in a Representative Republic, as you state. Democracy means mob rule, and we all know what emotional mob mentality can do. Our representatives, can, and do vote to implement stuff we don't like, nor want. That is our system. It doesn't have to be "Democratic".

The electric car is not intended to "fix" the environment. Most of us know that is a fallacy. It is meant to make the selected few elitists, RICH. That is all.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:40 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,496,023 times
Reputation: 2963
My question is this...

If California is the home state of technology and electronics...
Why not develop solar powered blimps with catalyst/filtration systems? Or is that too much like common sense? It's 2017 going on 2018... not 2017 going on 1917... the technology to do great things exists, yet it's more regulate this ban that to push an agenda...

That's why I can't take the EPA or CARB serious. They're a bureaucracy that makes regulations. In the name of environmental issues... yet... do not do anything proactive other than and issue fines/ridiculous rules/restrictions.
I thought progressives the key word was progress, to move forward... not backwards into a dystopia...

The landmass of the state is enormous.
They would need a ridiculously expensive infrastructure to support the implementation of an entirely electronic vehicle transit system.

You're talking power stations, a power grid, whether above or below ground...
There's the toxic batteries issue, which to be honest, isn't economical at all, even if lithium ion, to recycle lithium is 5x more expensive than mining...

Can post all the tesla beating this vehicle that vehicle in a drag race. What about trucking? How are you going to move freight? What about farming/harvesting implements? I worked at a place that had LP gas CNG and diesel forklifts. They replaced the diesel ones with electric. They lasted for 6 hours before they came to a crawl and required recharging which took 8-14 hours.

For large cities I could see electric cars as feasible. Buses? Nope. Trolley cars sure. But battery operated buses no way. Taxis? Sure. Cars? Sure. Although stop and go presents an issue. Battery drain, electric is most efficient when in a highway situation with a constant draw. Golf karts are good example even though they have standard lead acid batteries. They would last longer with a steady load/draw, than stop accelerate, stop accelerate.

I know it sounds like blasphemy but really that 30/35% efficient internal combustion gasoline small block V8 is far more practical. So is that evil diesel.
Which seems more practical
1. Abundant fossil or synthetic fuels
2. Finite conductive metals to support an electrical vehicle and corresponding grid?
OR
3. Develop implements that filter the air?

That's why I can't take the EPA or CARB serious. I cant. I'd much rather see, the development of a good year blimp with a big catalyst to go around filtering the air. Not mandating vehicles emit cleaner emissions than the air they inhale.

Like diesels. I built many high performance power stroke powered trucks when I lived in NY. Delete the emissions control devices, utilize proper tuning, place those trucks on a chassis dyno with an exhaust gas analyzer, the tail pipe emissions were not a significant change to warrant the use of a catalyst DPF/after treatment system, or EGR system. Bad tuning would yield rolling coal. Higher hydrocarbon emissions and higher C02 emissions. N0X was lower.
Proper tuning, not sucking abrasive soot into the intake stream, re routing crankcase ventilation vapors into a catch can. Cleaning up the intake charge. Tuning that manipulated the operation of the VGT solenoid to build more boost quicker, changing the ignition dwell or timing/duration, yielded the same C02 count, slightly elevated N0X count, reduced hydrocarbon count as you were getting a cleaner more complete burn. Think about it. EGR is used to inhale exhaust gas to lower the combustion temperature to lower N0X emissions. At the same time, increases hydrocarbon count as a less efficient burn took place. Catalysts were used to clean that up.

So it came as no surprise when a 6.0 6.4 6.7 went from getting an average of 12-17mpg increased to low to mid 20mpg in a 3/4 or 1 ton capacity crew cab short box truck. Cleaner intake charge = cleaner exhaust output. Altered injection dwell = more efficient burn. But the EPA and anti diesel crowd don't want people knowing that. They issue fines for altering and ditching those implements. And want the masses to believe diesels spew rolling clouds of cancer and run on the blood of toddlers unicorns and puppies.

When VW scandal came to be, I applauded VW. They basically tuned their cars to go around utilizing emissions control devices that caused longevity/reliability issues, and catastrophic failure. They were smart. Not smart enough unfortunately and got popped. You look at the old 80s diesel powered cars they had. Pre emissions implements. Those things would get 60 70mpg highway like a champ. Same with Mercedes Benz. Those old 300D would get phenomenal mileage for what they were. Compare it to the diesels they offer today with all of the emissions control devices, the MPG is negligible due to inefficiency caused by emissions control devices. Old big rigs pre emissions control devices would run for 100s of thousands of miles before needing an overhaul.

Now. Pfft. 2 friends of mine work for big truck shops back in NY. These things are getting towed in suffering from a nuisance failed EGR valve causing the truck to stall and die, to catastrophic failures that I see on ford F250s-F550s. Melted pistons, ruptured egr coolers leading to popped head gaskets, fouled turbos, plugged up particulate filters leading to burnt exhaust valves from excessive back pressure, all sorts of issues that never used to be. Used to be bad fuel caused an injector/pump failure, mechanical wear of camshafts lifters bearings etc.

I say ditch the emissions, call upon engineering firms to develop implements to filter the air, use vehicle registration and tax revenue collected on fuel sales, to design and operate, and maintain said implements. Problem solved. Otherwise bureaucracy will mandate it's will onto the consumer.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,862 posts, read 9,529,660 times
Reputation: 15578
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
What about trucking? How are you going to move freight?
CLICKY
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,934,056 times
Reputation: 5932
By the time any such "ban" could be imposed the majority of car would already be running on alternative fuel sources. Thing is some people make the mistake of thinking that running out and selling a perfectly good running gas or diesel vehicle is going green, they seem to forget that the plant that builds the alternative fuel vehicle will up their greenhouse gas output through more production of vehicles and the original vehicle is still on the road. If one wants to go with an alternative vehicle when their current vehicle is ready for the junkyard than that is fine, but to do it early has the opposite impact, think about the entire picture instead of the kneejerk reaction so many tend to operate on.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:02 AM
 
8,924 posts, read 5,625,222 times
Reputation: 12560
Used volts are not that expensive. They depreciate fairly quick.
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