Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
However is right...
1) Not true. There are people devoted to finding ways to avoid other sources of tragedy nearly full time, all the time. Tragedies simply tend to bring those efforts and arguments to the forefront amidst all else that goes on in our lives on an ongoing basis. This same dynamic applies to a great many other issues like aircraft safety, children's toys and crib safety, fire prevention and on and on. Plane goes down killing all aboard and that becomes the story of the day and renewed/heightened focus on flight safety, for example. Nothing unique to the subject of gun control there.
2) The contention is that all manner in which to possibly prevent or reduce tragedies should be seriously considered, evaluated and action determined according to what constitutes sound public policy. Of course that's the contention and the essence of the debate over what works and what doesn't.
3) True. There are countless ways we can die, be killed and/or suffer from tragedy. This is not a point confused by anyone far as I know and generally not worth making. Note, stair cases are now built to code as a result of too many stair case accidents occurring because steps were too narrow or too steep back in the old days (I had an old home with such a stair case that would not be built or meet code today).
4) "Fervor" is a hard thing to measure and awfully subjective. Some people, who have lost a loved one due to Paddock for example, are likely to experience some "fervor" about this subject one way or another. Others have hardly any emotion about it at all, because they are busy with focus on other things, like NASCAR racing or the World Series. All depends on who your dealing with and being specific along those lines is far more productive than these broad-brush profiles of what the "other side" thinks.
5) Can't speak for any or all gun control advocates and either can you, but I think you do a very good job of incorrectly making their arguments for them or suggesting they are "silent" on other significant causes of death. Cancer from smoking cigarettes comes to mind, another example of countless others that people have hardly been "silent" about.
6) The issue regarding any tragedy has little to do with the number or nature of other tragedies. This is a point that gun enthusiasts seem to struggle with mightily. Also that just about any source of tragedy is constantly being considered and addressed by those in the industries having to do with those tragedies, be they the auto industry, food industry, energy industry, etc.
7) I have engaged in pointing out what arguments are fairly sound, agreeable, and which are not so much, even ridiculous ALL CONSIDERED.
That last statement I put in bold above is utterly ridiculous, to the point I have to believe you know it. I have two kids, lots of good friends and family. Anyone who knows me can tell you how ridiculous your claim truly is. Surely your just trying to get me into a fervor, but I don't usually let emotions get the better of me.
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1. You're equating mechanical malfunctions of an aircraft, a commandeered cockpit, or radar malfunction... to firearm legislation?
There are guidelines that firearms manufactures must abide by. They can't go selling firearms that would explode in your face... that's the equivalency to mechanical failure of an air craft.
Commandeered cockpit can be prevented if the **** pit door is locked and can't be compromised along with an armed guard. Firearms manufacturers are not liable for the end users decisions/intent.
Radar malfunction... can't really draw a conclusive relevant equivalency to firearms unless the end user has failed eye sight and/or plain ignorant.
Be sure of your target and what's beyond it. You own that projectile and whatever it hits.
2. I do not wish to be a part of a training wheel feels good society where everything is controlled. That is the main reason I put a programmer in my 14 Silverado. To get rid of traction control, stability control, and ABS.
3. Again. False equivalency of a building code to a firearm as the manufacturer has to comply with regulations via ATF. That stair case you gave an example of, could be relevant if you want to compare a Colt SP1 from 1963 that had a fun switch (with the 200 dollar tax) to a new AR varient which does not have the fun switch...
Or compare building codes where I lived in NY to here in Florida...
I renovated my house roof, added a porch, redid all of the electrical and the heating system. All I needed was to pay for the permit and have the respective inspector sign off after I completed the work. Florida. You need to be licensed to do anything.
4. Pro sports irrelevant to constitutionally protected rights.
5. Cigarettes and other threats to safety and well being are risks. There are places in Florida you can go into and sit down and smoke cigarettes. Outdoor and indoor.
In MA NY CT it is illegal to smoke inside.
6. The issue is quite simple. God given constitutionally protected freedoms > emotion every time. Regardless who, where, when. When you flip the emotion switch to off, life becomes alot less complicated and stressful. Try it. It's awesome.
It sounds harsh. Was the same argument I had with anti gun legislators in town hall meetings in NY. My words were how dare you exploit tragedy in vain. If you are that easily compelled by emotion you are unfit to make clear rational decisions and should not hold any authority over citizens to write and sign off on laws that impede freedom.
7. You've admitted to me previously you are frustrated... you're point is moot.
Just be honest and say I don't support anyone's right to equip themselves as they see fit. I'm either scared or angry about events like this happening and therfore I blame the instrument not the end user and their intent. I want this that and the other restricted and modified to meet my ideal utopian beliefs.
We want the same things. Really we do. We just have different approaches to it.
You'd rather see AR/AK/M1 styled rifles with detachable magazines and legal modifications go the way of the carburetor. Because you're scared or angry...
I'd rather remove scumbags intent. Id rather remove their incentive. Reverse any law that holds someone accountable for acting in either self defense of property and life, or acting in others defense of property and life.
That means. No more gun free zones. That means no more being liable for wrongful death suit manslaughter or murder when defending your life/property or community life/property.
Remember. Law enforcement is just that. Enforcing the law. Not prevention. Simply put.
You may install an ADT home security system as a deterrence to home invasions. You may install impact resistant glass in the house and superior locks in all of your doors.
It won't keep a criminal from breaking in. What will, is the racking of the slide of a glock, the charging handle of an AR/AK, or pump action.
What would stop a school shooting? Armed teachers. Who could thwart a would be attacker.
Vegas situation. Anyone who heard gun fire erupt respond with extreme prejudice and drop the scumbag themselves.
Adding cameras, metal detectors, explosive detectors, will only test the ingenuity of the attackers. They're a monitoring system nothing more nothing less.
Alot of good a metal detector would do if you fabricated a weapon entirely of carbon fiber and ceramic hiding springs and such in luggage.
You'd just test development of undetectable propellants. Heck could even have air powered weaponry...
At what point do you draw the line of trading liberty for security?
I don't want to live in a protective bubble.
I don't want to have padded floors walls and a suit with built in airbags should I trip and fall.
I don't want to be under constant surveillance while I am inside my home or outside my home.
I don't want government supplied transportation.
I like my freedom. I like my independence. I like living life without interference or restrictions or a nanny to dictate life to me based on their subjective interpretation of what is safe... I'll take my chances. Average life span is what nowadays 80? That leaves me with what... 40-50 years to go?
If anything happens to me before then ohwell. Don't cry for me. I'm not here forever. Just long enough to have fun.
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