Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Oh I see, so US is complicated whereas every other first world country is not? There is NOTHING in your post that says to me 'this is why our gun death rates are so much higher than other first world countries', just like I thought (well know really), its simply because of your ridiculously lax gun laws.
This is a long and rambling interview between a US police officer and a 21 year veteran UK police officer. This is the point where they discuss culture being an issue. https://youtu.be/FQmsAl8_yKI?t=29m17s
Your gun crime is also reported differently than ours. Your criminals are the ones with firearms (lawful citizens are prohibited from having firearms.) Your country only reports solved homicides by firearms as gun crime. If two gang members shoot each other and all your police have is two dead bodies (shot to death) and no verifiable shooter, then it's not added to the gun crime statistics.
Oh I see, so US is complicated whereas every other first world country is not? There is NOTHING in your post that says to me 'this is why our gun death rates are so much higher than other first world countries', just like I thought (well know really), its simply because of your ridiculously lax gun laws.
In the same post you quoted me I pointed out in rural America - in most of rural America and even suburban America - gun-used homicides are generally pretty rare. That's the rule, not the exception.
Take out the big cities in America in the gun stats and it's a different ball game. And if you do make guns illegal in these historically bad inner-city environments, do you think murders and robberies and homicides and rapes are just going to go away then?
In the same post you quoted me I pointed out in rural America - in most of rural America and even suburban America - gun-used homicides are generally pretty rare. That's the rule, not the exception.
Take out the big cities in America in the gun stats and it's a different ball game. And if you do make guns illegal in these historically bad inner-city environments, do you think murders and robberies and homicides and rapes are just going to go away then?
Guns are already illegal, especially carrying one in many of these cities. Also, the guns are bought illegally, or stolen, before they are used in crime, so already illegal.
Guns are already illegal, especially carrying one in many of these cities. Also, the guns are bought illegally, or stolen, before they are used in crime, so already illegal.
Well yeah there's that too.
Are there any statistics on murders, robberies, rapes where the perpetrator uses a gun that was obtained illegally?
Prudence or Pre-crime?
• Punishing deliberate harmful acts after the fact is how governments secure rights and liberties.
• Abolishing rights and liberties to prevent harmful acts is how incompetent governments function.
Oh I see, so US is complicated whereas every other first world country is not? There is NOTHING in your post that says to me 'this is why our gun death rates are so much higher than other first world countries', just like I thought (well know really), its simply because of your ridiculously lax gun laws.
COMPLICATION #1 - Americans are not subjects / serfs to be ruled by their government. In any other country, the government is the sovereign. In America, the government is the SERVANT of the sovereign people. Therefore, the servant cannot govern the master WITHOUT HIS EXPLICIT CONSENT.
COMPLICATION #2 - If you deduct suicides (and "suicide by cop") the percapita murder rate is far less that most other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate
Murder per capita
#1 El Salvador
#2 Honduras
#3 Venezuela
#9 South Africa
#15 Anguilla (UK)
#28 Puerto Rico
#35 Greenland (!)
#43 Russia
#64 Uruguay
#66 British Virgin Islands (UK)
#95 Lithuania
#102 USA
#109 Ukraine
#112 Cuba
#131 India
#172 Canada
#178 France
#188 Israel (despite widespread arms)
= = =
Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation,... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms...”
- - - James Madison, Federalist Paper #46.
The Avalon Project : Federalist No 46
- - - -
ASSAULT VEHICLES
Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.
Why aren't there vocal proponents of BANNING ASSAULT VEHICLES, and returning to the much safer electric traction rail mass transit? [CRICKETS CHIRPING]
And let's not forget the recent terrorist attacks by murderous drivers mowing down people indiscriminately.
Handguns were by far the most popular murder weapon used in the US in 2016. That year 7,105 people were murdered with handguns. Knives or cutting instruments were the second most popular weapon used, with 1,604 murders committed with a knife.
- - - -
Note: the 'scary gun ban' (misnamed 'assault weapon ban') had little effect on the statistics.
YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE 1994 ASSAULT WEAPON BAN?
• Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (AKs) (all models)
• Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil
• Beretta AR-70 (SC-70)
• Colt AR-15
• Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN-LAR, FNC
• SWD (MAC type) M-10, M-11, M11/9, M12
• Steyr AUG
• INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22
• Revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12
[The prohibitions expired on September 13, 2004.]
- - - -
People are dangerous, armed or not.
I doubt that there are many victims who would prefer being unarmed and helpless, but I could be wrong.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,180 posts, read 13,461,836 times
Reputation: 19487
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlEsc
Your criminals are the ones with firearms (lawful citizens are prohibited from having firearms.) Your country only reports solved homicides by firearms as gun crime.
I take issue om both these points, as firstly lawful citizens are not prohibited by a firearm and secondly a cause of death such as Catergory 3 Unlawful Killing Homicide is recorded by the Coroner, who investigates also such deaths and who orders postmortems, Coroners Courts and even full public inquires.
The recording of a homicide had nothing to do with a conviction or a case being solved, indeed of a homicide is not solved it is still recorded by the Coroner as a homicide. The coroner's verdict in relation to a death is legally binding regardless of any police investigation or the case remaining unsolved. A homicide is still a homicide once the Coroner has given his verdict, there are only a handful of cases where the Coroner due to new information reopens a case, as was done in respect of the 96 who died at the Hillsborough Football Stadium Disaster, the intial Coroner recorded a verdict of natural causes, however the case was reopened and a Jury at the Coroners Court overruled the initial verdict, finding in favour of Unlawful Killing in relation to Homicide.
Another example was when GP Dr Harold Shipman was found guilty of murdering elderly patients through the use of morphine, there were initially 15 cases however the Coroner's Inquest recorded unlawful killings on 215 victims, thereby swelling the UK Murder rate.
The Police in the UK treat all homicide very seriously and have specialist Murder Investgations Teams (MIT's), these teams generally consist of around 50 staff, led by a Detective Chief Inspector (DCI), who performs the role of Senior Investigating Officer (SIO) with specialist support oiffered by Scotland Yard, National Crime Agency, National Ballistics Intelligence Service etc, indeed many forces have over a 95% plus homicide clear up rate.
Last edited by Brave New World; 04-13-2018 at 06:07 AM..
I take issue om both these points, as firstly lawful citizens are not prohibited by a firearm and secondly a cause of death such as Catergory 3 Unlawful Killing Homicide is recorded by the Coroner, who investigates also such deaths and who orders postmortems, Coroners Courts and even full public inquires.
The recording of a homicide had nothing to do with a conviction or a case being solved, indeed of a homicide is not solved it is still recorded by the Coroner as a homicide. The coroner's verdict in relation to a death is legally binding regardless of any police investigation or the case remaining unsolved. A homicide is still a homicide once the Coroner has given his verdict, there are only a handful of cases where the Coroner due to new information reopens a case, as was done in respect of the 96 who died at the Hillsborough Football Stadium Disaster, the intial Coroner recorded a verdict of natural causes, however the case was reopened and a Jury at the Coroners Court overruled the initial verdict, finding in favour of Unlawful Killing in relation to Homicide.
...
Brilliant that they cleared up some older cases. Trying to solve the No Criming issues?
"No criming is the practice of writing off reported crimes as not constituting a crime – marking as "no crime". This is applied inconsistently across crimes and regions, frequently incorrectly,[1] and sometimes due to pressure from performance and other factors.[1] In the aggregate, in the period November 2012 – October 2013, an average of 19% of crimes reported to the police are not recorded, with one quarter of sexual crimes and one third of violent crimes not being recorded, with rape being particularly bad at 37% no-criming.[1][6] Reporting is inconsistent across local forces: "In a few forces, crime-recording is very good, and shows that it can be done well and the statistics can be trusted. In some other forces, it is unacceptably bad." The failure to properly record crime has been called "inexcusably poor" and "indefensible" by Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary Tom Winsor. Twenty percent of reviewed decisions to cancel a report were found to be incorrect, and in about a quarter of cases there was no record of victims being informed that their report had been canceled"
"No criming is the practice of writing off reported crimes as not constituting a crime – marking as "no crime". This is applied inconsistently across crimes and regions, frequently incorrectly,[1] and sometimes due to pressure from performance and other factors.[1] In the aggregate, in the period November 2012 – October 2013, an average of 19% of crimes reported to the police are not recorded, with one quarter of sexual crimes and one third of violent crimes not being recorded, with rape being particularly bad at 37% no-criming.[1][6] Reporting is inconsistent across local forces: "In a few forces, crime-recording is very good, and shows that it can be done well and the statistics can be trusted. In some other forces, it is unacceptably bad." The failure to properly record crime has been called "inexcusably poor" and "indefensible" by Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary Tom Winsor. Twenty percent of reviewed decisions to cancel a report were found to be incorrect, and in about a quarter of cases there was no record of victims being informed that their report had been canceled"
The Office for National Statistics which publish the crime figures, use three methods, as police recorded crime merely reflects police activity, the Crime Survey for England & Wales (CSEW) is a far more accurate indicator, as are hospital admissions related to violent crime which are also recorded.
According tp the CSEW violent crime incidents has fallen from its 1995 peak of 3.8 million to 1.3 million, and remains at around a third of the figure it was over 20 years ago.
57% of Violent Crime recorded by the police in England & Wales results in no injury to anyone whatsoever and is minor assault (such as pushing and shoving), harassment and abuse (that result in no physical harm). So Police violent crime is actually over recorded.
In terms of the CSEW which is the most accurate measure of crime according to criminologists and statistians, it shows a 7% fall in overall crime in the last published figures. As for police recorded crime the ONS itself points ou it's unreliability in relation to providing a reliable measure of trends.
Originally Posted by Office for National Statistics
Latest violent crime figures continue to present a complex picture
Violent crime covers a wide range of offences including minor assaults (such as pushing and shoving), harassment and abuse (that result in no physical harm), through to wounding and homicide. Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) violence includes incidents with and without injury and also covers attempted incidents. Violent offences in police recorded data are referred to as “violence against the person” and include homicide, violence with injury and violence without injury.
As with the CSEW, both actual and attempted assaults are included in the figures. The police recorded crime category of violence against the person also includes some offences, such as harassment and stalking, in which there is no physical assault involved.
For the population and violent offences that it covers, the CSEW provides the better measure of trends. The police recorded crime series is restricted to violent offences that have been reported to, and recorded by, the police. In addition, due to the ensuing efforts of police forces to tighten recording practice and improve recording processes, this series is not currently believed to provide a reliable measure of trends.
Originally Posted by Office for National Statistics
The estimated annual number of CSEW violent crime incidents has fallen from its 1995 peak of 3.8 million to 1.3 million. However, there was no statistically significant change compared with the previous year’s survey.
Improvements in crime recording processes by the police are thought to be the main driver of a 27% rise in the number of violence against the person offences recorded by the police in the year ending March 2016 compared with the previous year.
The 106,098 sexual offences recorded by the police was the highest figure recorded since the introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard in 2002. As well as improvements in recording practices, this is thought to reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes, including non-recent victims.
Violence without injury accounted for around half (55%) of all CSEW violent incidents, while the more serious crimes of wounding and assault with minor injury accounted for 24% and 21% respectively.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,180 posts, read 13,461,836 times
Reputation: 19487
There is a massive difference in how crime is recorded between the UK and many other countries, for instance 57% of crime recorded as violent crime by the police in the UK resulted in no injury to anyone whatsoever, and this was 55% in relation to the Crime Survey for England and Wales.
Furthermore the way crime is recorded and changing definitions has also had an impact on crime figures and it should be noted that even in areas such as rape the way crime figures are recorded in the UK and definitions have changed in recent years. Rape now includes all kinds of things beyond mere penetration including forced oral right through to tricking a woman by not wearing a condom etc, and the onus is now on consent rather than force used. At the same time as this change, the way statistics were collected was also changed causing a rise in figures, and this was also couled with more willingness for victims to come forward.
As for robbery, there possible has been an increase but this may be due to several factors such as the amount of phones and electronic devices on the streets, and some reported robbery has actually been found to be merely people trying to claim insurance to get new electronic devices. Also unlike the NYPD which uses midemeanor and felony as defintons, the police in London record all crime no matter what the value of what is stolen in relation to robbery, burglary, theft, shop lifing etc. Indeed in terms of shoplifting and other types of theft the arrival of professional gangs from Eastern Europe over the last decade has seen a substantial increase, whilst 17% of people in our prisons our now foreign nationals.
A favourite of the NYPD is to downgrade crime so it no longer appears on compstat figures, for instance any robbery under $1000 is a midemeanor rather than a Grand Felony and would not appear on Compstat, and the same applies to assaults which can also be downgraded to manipulate figures. This has been going on for years and is well documented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffington Post
In interviews with the criminologists, other retired senior officers cited examples of what the researchers believe was a periodic practice among some precinct commanders and supervisors: checking eBay, other Web sites, catalogs or other sources to find prices for items that had been reported stolen that were lower than the value provided by the crime victim.
They would then use the lower values to reduce reported grand larcenies — felony thefts valued at more than $1,000, which are recorded as index crimes under CompStat — to misdemeanors, which are not, the researchers said.
Others also said that precinct commanders or aides they dispatched sometimes went to crime scenes to persuade victims not to file complaints or to urge them to change their accounts in ways that could result in the downgrading of offenses to lesser crimes, the researchers said.
“Those people in the CompStat era felt enormous pressure to downgrade index crime, which determines the crime rate, and at the same time they felt less pressure to maintain the integrity of the crime statistics,” said John A. Eterno, one of the researchers and a retired New York City police captain.”
Finally it also should be noted that London's population is now 8.8 million and that murder rates have fallen massively even though the population has risen, and even after a slight rise which can also be attributed to acts of terrorism, the murder rate stands at around 140 a year and over a quarter of that figure relates to domestic violence murders, something which the police are working to reduce.
All in all London remains one of the safest cities of it's size in the world.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
