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Old 10-06-2017, 05:30 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,479,577 times
Reputation: 2963

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First and foremost I want to get this made clear. I do not condone or praise anything this or any other scumbag did regardless whether they're a foreign terrorist, a racist, or a "psychopath". It hurts not being able to have been there to do something to stop what has happened.

Over the course of days in here, multiple threads and ideas that have turned into flame wars, have come about. Emotions run wild. I am a person of logic. I don't succumb to fly off the handle of fear or anger to make judgement or decisions.

What will stop these things from happening?!
That's the million dollar question Regis.


Of all of the quickly thought out propositions and calls for gun control measures to be implemented, to further restrict the rights of anyone, I want to propose logical reasoning. Anti gunners hear me and the rest of us pro gunners out. You folks fall for the dramatics and theatrical use of words like "assault weapon" "silencer" "High capacity magazine" and know nothing of what you seek to ban.

You can legislate the device and neuter it all that you want. You only harm the rights of those who are of sound mind and character who happen to enjoy something that is alien or different to you. That is the right to defend oneself as they see fit, not relying on big brother with a badge to handle a threat or deadly situation. And the right to participate in competitive shooting sports.

This works much like racism.
Fear what is different. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds disgusting divide
We don't need any further divide and emotional knee jerk reactions and political high fives of a "us vs them". A rational discussion where both sides are heard. I personally get it, you are scared. You fear this could happen to you or someone you know and cherish. I had a cousin on the ground there. Most of my family lives in either California Arizona or Nevada.

So what is the solution? There are thousands of laws already on the books pertaining to preventing these tragic things. Are you really that scared to be ready to call for forfeiture or restriction on rights, because death may be the end result? Now remember, your champions on anti gun legislation enjoy the protection of paid armed security guards. They are not you or me or anyone else common. Whether they're a movie star, a singer/musician, or politician. They will always have their protection, can you afford to hire private security?

I for one do not live with fear. I take risks every day. I am more likely to get T boned by a retiree in a Buick in this state, than I am to become gunned down. Doesn't mean I'm going to forfeit my privilege to drive. I used to race stock cars when I lived in NY. Could have died in a wreck at over 100mph or be pummeled to death by an angry woodchuck who had a chip on their shoulder. It didn't stop me from participating in a sport that I enjoyed.

Evil criminals exist. They'll use whatever means necessary to extinguish life, whether it is due to race, politics, pent up rage, religious zealots, whatever. "Illegal" guns will always be available to them, be they construct them or have them through the black market no different than cocaine, heroin, or any other illegal substance.

So I pose a logical solution that, well... not many may agree to or like regardless of politics, regardless of religious beliefs, regardless of race, regardless of anything...

Instead of banning implements. Instead of enforcing stricter laws. Instead of being subjected to groping, and increased security with scanners galore, relinquishing freedoms for a band aid of security...

Let's ban the insane, let's ban the evil and criminally intent.

How? Here's the proposition

It's 2017. I say genetic testing be carried out. Work with neuro scientists, genetics researchers, and psychologists. Keep it purely apolitical and non racially discriminating. Whether wealthy or poor. You are subjected to screening.

Sterilize the mentally unfit. Abort those currently pregnant. Keep those from reproducing.
Afterall... this scumbags father wasn't too sound in the head...
Reproduce only sane individuals who lack a thirst for blood and chaotic behavior.

Nobodies rights would be necessarily infringed.
Women's rights activists may agree to birth control measures if funded nationally.
There would also be a decrease for the need of that hot topic of abortion if reproduction is only allowed via screening. Regardless of my opinion on the matter, you can still be promiscuous... you just won't have umpteen children for social services fundings.

You eliminate the threat of the deranged.
You eliminate the monetary drain on a social service system.
You eliminate over crowded jails.
Pharmaceutical companies that rub elbows with insurance companies would take a hit.

Would it put counsellors out of a job over time? I don't believe so. Traumatic events will still occur. Car accidents, planes having mechanical failures, rides at amusement park failures.

Clean up the gene pool, you eliminate murderous heinous violent people. And create a smarter, stronger, safer society. With no subjective agenda presenting law to infringe on the rights of all for the actions of a few.

Then again. I'm not consumed by emotion. Nor have I once ever felt the desire to extinguish the life or lives of innocent people due to any of the struggles or hardships I have faced.

I'm for something like that. Remember, anything within your arms reach may become a weapon. A coffee mug, a hammer, a shower rod, a kitchen knife, a fork, a pencil, household chemicals...

I only suggest such an odd solution for it is never an implement that can cause death all on its own. The one who operates the device does.
It will no doubt be a controversial topic for discussion...

There are other forms of evil lingering out there. Rapists will still rape. Child molesters will still abduct or force themselves on children. Murders will still find a way. Car jackers and home invaders/burglars will still find a way. Looters will still find a way. But if properly vetted and screened they may no longer exist.

I'm not a firm believer in banning implements. There are already laws and punishments in place. There already is enough social decay out there. Banning implements will just test the ingenuity of the criminally and evil intent. Also push for more social divide, "us vs them".

Study and post all of the statistics you want. There needs to be a logical not emotional connection to the statistics. Logically we are all at more risk to be killed on our commute to work, than by the hand of a sick sadistic lunatic. Yet nobody calls for the banning of private transportation devices... as time progresses, a call for more safety measures arrise.

The number of those who own what you seek to ban is staggering. Yet the statistics of them posing any harm to you and your loved ones do not show they are as near a threat as a car, a slippery floor, or a surgeon that makes an error and unintentionally results in your death during opperation...

Why is that?

What are your thoughts?
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,065 posts, read 18,879,932 times
Reputation: 25985
Sounds kind of like "A Modest proposal."
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:48 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,479,577 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
Sounds kind of like "A Modest proposal."
It's literally the only thing I can come up with to prevent such things without enforcing and limiting more legislative harm to weaken the rights of all, and to rid the country of evil doers.

Weaken the rights of all meaning being subjected to intensive searching before entering a sporting event, a concert, a convention, a hotel, a park so on and so forth. Weaken a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms?

Think TSA on steroids. Are people that emotionally imbalanced to be ruled by fear?
Remember... once something becomes implemented as law... it's easier said than done to reverse it.

Are people willing to be groped scanned strip searched and wait exceeding times to enter events, speeches, rallies, casinos, hotels, areas of high population in the name of false sense of security?
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:49 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,479,577 times
Reputation: 2963
Hey mods, what gives? My thread has nothing to do with Wisconsin...
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:53 AM
 
51,613 posts, read 25,655,910 times
Reputation: 37800
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Hey mods, what gives? My thread has nothing to do with Wisconsin...
And I'm wondering why this thread has veered from gerrymandering to searching people at sporting events.

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Old 10-06-2017, 06:01 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,479,577 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
And I'm wondering why this thread has veered from gerrymandering to searching people at sporting events.

Someone merged it... Wasn't me...
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts & Hilton Head, SC
9,963 posts, read 15,562,952 times
Reputation: 8613
I don't know how they got merged but I tried to fix it. Let me know if you want a different title because I don't know what the original one was.
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:22 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,479,577 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
I don't know how they got merged but I tried to fix it. Let me know if you want a different title because I don't know what the original one was.
This one will work, thank you.
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,065 posts, read 18,879,932 times
Reputation: 25985
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
It's literally the only thing I can come up with to prevent such things without enforcing and limiting more legislative harm to weaken the rights of all, and to rid the country of evil doers.

Weaken the rights of all meaning being subjected to intensive searching before entering a sporting event, a concert, a convention, a hotel, a park so on and so forth. Weaken a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms?

Think TSA on steroids. Are people that emotionally imbalanced to be ruled by fear?
Remember... once something becomes implemented as law... it's easier said than done to reverse it.

Are people willing to be groped scanned strip searched and wait exceeding times to enter events, speeches, rallies, casinos, hotels, areas of high population in the name of false sense of security?
I support logic over emotion in the large majority of cases but your proposal is too radical imo and would never be implemented anyway. There are many tings we can do that we haven't yet to make things safer but many of those are not politically possible.

Does anyone have any solid idea why that Paddock nut decided to go on such a killing rampage....hard to know what actions can be taken without knowing what motivates such actions.
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:52 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,479,577 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
I support logic over emotion in the large majority of cases but your proposal is too radical imo and would never be implemented anyway. There are many tings we can do that we haven't yet to make things safer but many of those are not politically possible.

Does anyone have any solid idea why that Paddock nut decided to go on such a killing rampage....hard to know what actions can be taken without knowing what motivates such actions.
Well... I had posted my theory elsewhere I'll paste it below. Nothing on the surface makes any sense. Wealthy. Etc. Other than this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Doesn't need to be a CIA. Could be something more sinister that liberals have been screaming about Trump's cabinet being full of business men with the claims of business interests over the populations interests.

Who stands to profit off of this?

Hmm... the same companies that developed X ray scanners, and body scanners for TSA... security contractor companies to hire guards to provide protection.
Other technology and security systems companies to develop surveillance systems-hardware and software.

I do believe there is a mental health issue in the country, no doubt about it. But I believe there was multiple motives here. It's speculation of course and just a theory.
To me it doesn't add up.
1. Wealthy
2. Old
3. Worked for defense contract company and NASA


Why would someone cart that many modified AR15s up there? And these aren't cheap ARs either...
Motive-strike fear and seek banning of implements.

I'm not a fan of the bump fire stock as they beat the snot out of rifles.

But look at all of those guns. Daniel's defense and Colts are not cheap rifles. 16 18 and 20 inch uppers are running 1200-2500 a piece. Add on the 200 300 dollar bump fire stocks, the bipods, the eotech optics. You're looking at 3k-5k per weapon.
These weren't basic entry level sub quality ARs from DPMS Bushmaster etc...
Quantity of ammo present. The magazines...

Motive-strike fear, get politicians to play on these things as a threat to society for mere possession. Push legislation in vain of the tragedy. Push for implementation of tighter security. Security devices like TSA but on steroids. Those companies profit.

Rumor is the owner of Mandalay MGM was A high up chairman of homeland security infrastructure division. And holds stock in a company that developed body scanners and such for TSA...
Odd someone with a background working in a defense corporation stays in that hotel... carries that many weapons into a hotel... had an escape plan to get out...

But we'll ban guns and devices that do harm and push for safer measures to be implemented at large gatherings of people to prevent this tragedy from ever happening again.

Again. Just speculation given the facts that have been floating around.
Would seem to make sense to do this, ban weapons in vain of a tragedy, unarm and cause divide in the mean time, to get the weak to assume anyone who owns an AR is a homicidal maniac. Rewrite the 2nd to fit the weak for a bigger agenda. Push for intrusive scanning devices and TSA on steroids type security measures.

Think about it. Seems plausible to me...
How many judgemental arguments have been tossed around here in this forum?
How many holier than thou elitists have declared there is a gun fetish, an unhealthy obsession for firearms, this that the other?
Bet if there were any other hobbies that lead to mass tragedy they'd be demonized as well and cause judgement.

AIDS kills alot of people too, don't see me telling others how to live their life and to quit being promiscuous...

Kind of like Bush Jr invading Iraq. His motive was to finish what his daddy started. But there were weapons of mass destruction...
Side effect was bagging Sadam and his murderous thug sons.
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