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Old 10-09-2017, 05:29 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,019,001 times
Reputation: 17864

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
In addition to having no pity for those so eager to try to make coal happen when it's been dying for decades,
Continually repeating something does not make it true.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:31 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 4,490,205 times
Reputation: 3981
Maga. Make America grimey again.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,204 posts, read 26,160,308 times
Reputation: 15612
Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
It's been in the courts since it first got announced.

The problem is that the changes did not go through Congress.
The EPA changed the rules of the Clean Air Act themselves citing "ambiguity" and that they could change the rules themselves without needing Congress.


Yet another instance of the Obama administration bypassing Congress to create their own laws.

Not that I'm against changing the laws to reflect current issues, but changes to the laws created by Congress need to be done by Congress.

All those changes done by Obama outside of Congress are now being undone by Trump outside of Congress.
The courts have yet to rule on the Clean Power Plan, several states filed suit hoping to block the plan to lower emissions, the plan was done through Rule Making as are the changes that Pruitt is proposing. The repeal of the plan will also be challeneged by environmental groups and states so this will take years. Neither the original rule or it's proposed repeal will go through congress, that is just nonsense as the EPA has the right to regulate Greenhouse Gas emmisssions from a prior ruling.


The Global Energy Institute has a better way to regulate emssions, can't wait to hear their plan. Meanwhile coal is dissapearing, many of the states that sued have already gone green so what's the point. We are well into bizzaro world with the EPA administrator woryring about a non existent war on coal.




Here is an article with more details


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/09/c...=top-news&_r=0

Last edited by Goodnight; 10-09-2017 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:38 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,699,165 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Continually repeating something does not make it true.
Multiple sources disagree:

“First, as Patrick Reis reported over at National Journal, coal jobs in West Virginia and Kentucky have been vanishing for decades — long before Barack Obama became president. So there are some long-term trends at work here:

Why have Kentucky and West Virginia lost 38,000 coal jobs since 1983? For one, coal mining has become increasingly automated in recent decades, particularly as companies have shifted to techniques such as mountaintop-removal mining, which are less labor intensive.

On top of everything else, Central Appalachia's coal now appears to be running out, as many of the thick, easy-to-mine seams have vanished.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a9f9315f203d
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:41 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,699,165 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
Maga. Make America grimey again.
Make black lung great again.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:47 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,019,001 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Neither the original rule or it's proposed repeal will go through congress,
That's not the way it works. The EPA won the right to regulate CO2 under the 1990 amendment to the Clean Air Act from a SCOTUS ruling in 2007. That's existing law that was never intended to regulate CO2.

The SCOTUS ruling and these regulations would instantly be rendered moot with new legislation stripping the EPA of this power.

The Democrats energy bill in 2009 that passed the House did that and there is legislation from Republicans that has been on the back burner for more than decade that would also do that.

Quote:
that is just nonsense as the EPA has the right to regulate Greenhouse Gas emmisssions from a prior ruling.
Because they can does not mean they have to and those regulations need to take into account things like cost/benefits, that is where the lawsuits come in. Again this authority is from existing law, the law can be changed.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:48 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,444 posts, read 7,009,036 times
Reputation: 4601
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
It is about propping up an industry that has been dying for decades, and is not cost competitive compared to all other non-renewable or renewable sources- not taking into account that it is dirtier than other sources along with coal ash slurry ponds adjacent to operating plants by rivers. Coal should have gone the way of the dinosaurs decades ago.
IF this is true it would have died decades ago. Removing a recent reg isn't propping it up, by definition.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:52 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,019,001 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
Multiple sources disagree:

“First, as Patrick Reis reported over at National Journal, coal jobs in West Virginia and Kentucky have been vanishing for decades — long before Barack Obama became president. So there are some long-term trends at work here:

Why have Kentucky and West Virginia lost 38,000 coal jobs since 1983? For one, coal mining has become increasingly automated in recent decades, particularly as companies have shifted to techniques such as mountaintop-removal mining, which are less labor intensive.

On top of everything else, Central Appalachia's coal now appears to be running out, as many of the thick, easy-to-mine seams have vanished.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a9f9315f203d
The coal industry like any other industry in this country has always lost jobs to automation and other improvements. The work of 100 men 100 yeara go can be done one guy today. Other than increased production per employee it has nothing to do with the growth of the industry.

You made no mention of jobs in your previous posts, you were referring to the coal industry. The coal industry itself has had sustained growth over the last century right up until about 2008....
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:55 PM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,446,285 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
Most of them believe Jesus is coming soon so there is no point in even preserving the environment. That's also why they are able to talk so flippantly about nuclear war.
I have to say that you are right about a good many people.

Stewardship of God's creation does not seem to enter into the equation.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,120 posts, read 5,581,330 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
Make black lung great again.

The use of coal affects everyone in a community. Those who live near rail routes, have a steady dusting from the coal cars into the air they breathe and it settles all over the area, getting into everything. You might as well burn coal yourself, if you live in such an area, as you will share the health problems it causes.

And what nasty stuff it is! I was in an Army training school that used coal-fired cooking stoves. We all had to take turns "riding the range", which required us to crawl inside the huge ovens and scrub them out by hand. It took a week of showering to feel clean again and our fatigue uniforms were ruined and had to be tossed out.
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