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Old 10-09-2017, 04:49 PM
 
8,494 posts, read 3,335,020 times
Reputation: 6991

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
Trump is for free trade but he wants deals to benefit us and not everyone else in the world. America first!
Oh for heavens sakes. Who's this US?

Free trade benefits corporate America (the same corporate America that Republicans want to lower taxes on) ... free trade benefits stockholders and pensioners ... free trade benefits consumers ... free trade benefits companies (and the workers in them) who depend on imported components to remain profitable in the world marketplace ... free trade benefits entrepreneurs (many of which also build businesses based on imports) ... free trade agreements make possible US domination in intellectual properties.

More important free trade helps STABILIZE the world. If we have any hope of getting out of Trump-created messes with Korea it will be because of our free trade with China.

True, that workers in less competitive industries have lost out in the resulting economic shifts. For them, there should be empathy and alternatives.

But for Trump to be "for" free trade but "against" the agreements is a word mirage.

Oh sure, he can do a better deal and get EVERYONE to just go along. Really ? STILL believe that?

If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

You know, I really criticized George W for some of his trade-related determinations during the period after China joined the WTO. He voted FOR China every time and AGAINST the U.S. worker. His reasoning? World stability.

Now that we have a Trump who's come along, looks like Bush was right.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:12 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,138,210 times
Reputation: 8224
First, since you are a new poster here, I wanted to compliment you on your thoughtful and well-written post.

Speaking as a liberal Democrat myself, I hugely admire Republicans who are able to step back and admit that something is very wrong. I think everything about Trump and those who follow them is horrifying, with the endless succession of appalling news. (There's one other element to his strategy and POTUS, besides rolling back Obama policy, and that is to increase his own wealth, and, incidentally, do the same for other 1% people.)

I hope that in the short-term you will support Democrats for Senate and Congress - and then I also hope that a few years down the line, sanity will return to the Republican party. I know there must be a few sane Republicans left, like you, and I hope that you will soon be able to have a candidate that is not a menace and an embarrassment.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,612 posts, read 18,192,641 times
Reputation: 34463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
Hillary Clinton wouldn't have us on the brink of global nuclear war in which few of us survive and those that do now live in a post-apocalyptic hellhole. I didn't like Hillary and didn't vote for her (I might have if I lived in a swing state) but she is far more fit to run this country than the toddler that is in there now. Heck, even Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, or any other Republican would be a huge improvement. At this point, I am almost okay with ANYBODY but Trump.
And the loony left gets loonier by the day. TDS is real, folks!
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:32 PM
 
716 posts, read 393,078 times
Reputation: 1045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
This is just silly. You wont vote republican again because of trump? It's about the candidates policy.
Silly?!? It's one thing to vote for and take a chance on Trump, but after ten moths of this seeing this daily circus and refusing to admit that they've made a serious mistake, is just beyond pathetic.

To downplay and ignore Trump's immaturity, recklessness, lies and lack of morality goes far beyond 'silliness'. It's sad that so few lack the principles and guts to admit the truth. How far does he have to go before they realize their mistake?!? I believe their refusal borders on treason.

It's truly pathetic that Republicans have lost their moral compass and instead have sold their souls in order to pass their destructive, "policies".
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:34 PM
 
8,494 posts, read 3,335,020 times
Reputation: 6991
Quote:
Originally Posted by questionforeverything View Post
...
I sincerely hope daily that Trump is impeached, the 25th amendment is invoked or he get's bored and decides to resign and claim victory so that this nightmare is over sooner than another 3.5 years or so.
Nixon was so unstable at the end that Secretary of Defense Schlesinger took a number of steps to prevent him from using the nuclear codes (aide was instructed to immediately notify Schlesinger) or to implement military directives.

Rumors that there ARE talks going on in DC about how to handle Trump if he tries a nuclear end-run. Trying to work in the chaos of a Trump Presidency may be pretty bad but as long as Tillerson - Mattis - McMaster - Kelly continue (primarily for patriotism) there may be some safety net.

Even if they aren't fast enough ... even if Trump manages to pull off a nuclear strike there may be enough time for Cabinet - Congressional action or (worst case) a military coup to convince China to back down. Back door understandings already in place, maybe.

It's just unbelievable that a talk show host could be allowed to start WW3.

Plus, I actually don't think he's THAT crazy.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,612 posts, read 18,192,641 times
Reputation: 34463
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Nixon was so unstable at the end that Secretary of Defense Schlesinger took a number of steps to prevent him from using the nuclear codes (aide was instructed to immediately notify Schlesinger) or to implement military directives.

Rumors that there ARE talks going on in DC about how to handle Trump if he tries a nuclear end-run. Trying to work in the chaos of a Trump Presidency may be pretty bad but as long as Tillerson - Mattis - McMaster - Kelly continue (primarily for patriotism) there may be some safety net.

Even if they aren't fast enough ... even if Trump manages to pull off a nuclear strike there may be enough time for Cabinet - Congressional action or (worst case) a military coup to convince China to back down. Back door understandings already in place, maybe.

It's just unbelievable that a talk show host could be allowed to start WW3.
More "rumors?" Did the Russians tell you this?
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:47 PM
 
8,494 posts, read 3,335,020 times
Reputation: 6991
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
More "rumors?" Did the Russians tell you this?
No. Fake news.

The concern - and tentative responses to that concern - over Nixon is NOW pretty clearly credited, reputably reported.

You think Trump more stable than Nixon? Maybe, so. For now.

But I'd be REAL surprised given what the world now sees of Trump that there is NOT concern.

And at least tentative what-if discussions.

With back-door channels to the Chinese.

Be foolish not to have them.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,828,251 times
Reputation: 41863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevroqs View Post
Because your liberal fantasy world has been shattered after Hillary lost the election?
Wow, such an original statement. How did you ever come up with that one ?
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,843,045 times
Reputation: 4194
Quote:
Originally Posted by questionforeverything View Post
Before I begin this post, I registered to vote as a Republican years ago. I am far more inclined to agree with right wing arguments over the left on most issues.

No. I did not vote for Trump. Yet because of the right's endorsement, tolerance and enablement of Trump, I doubt that I could ever vote for a republican again unless there is such a massive, complete purge and overhaul of the party that it would likely resemble something drastically different than what it is now.
The Republican party is dead to me after Trump. Doesn't mean I'd go running to the democrats but it will take me quite alot to ever consider voting for another Republican or anyone who refused to stand on principle and oppose this train wreck before it became too late.

Where do I even BEGIN? I'm tired of anxiously checking the news every day, which becomes SO easy now with 24/7 cable news and an iPhone, just to see what latest stupid thing this fool said or did and how close we are to a war or some other catastrophe because this idiot has utterly no idea what he is doing and won't listen to those who do.

I remember last weekend feeling somewhat relieved when I heard that Rex Tillerson was making some progress de-escalating things with North Korea and then waking up Sunday to see that Trump Tweeted that he is "wasting his time"!! So with a few taps on his phone, this idiot manages to destroy whatever progress our diplomats made, alienates us from the rest of the world that wants to see a diplomatic resolution or containment and effectively neuters his own Secretary of State and for that matter, the very OFFICE of the SOS for as long as Trump remains president.

I don't know what's worse. That or the notion that some people actually think he knows what the hell he is doing, like he's playing some version of "good cop - bad cop" when the reality is, he has the demonstrative mentality and temperament of a five year old(With apologies to five year olds), who wants to show everyone who's boss and who needs constant attention or he will act up to get it.

How did we GET to this point? How did so many grown adults who voted or members of the Republican party who MUST have known better decide to enable this circus show?

I really don't know what is worse, the daily embarrassments this man-child visits on our once great country and office or POTUS or the fact that there are actually still people out there who think he is doing a good job?! I am amazed when I see the presidential approval rating and there are 25 or 30% of Americans who are actually convinced that Trump is doing a good job.

What is scarier, that a unprepared, unintelligent, narcissistic reality TV buffoon is now president with all of the attendant chaos and dysfunction that would logically ensue in such a scenario or that we have such a large number of Americans who seem functionally incapable of rational thought when asked to judge his fitness for office?!

That or the cynical republicans know damn well what Trump is but think it's ok to gamble our nation's future in order to get some legislation passed. *How's THAT working out?! BTW?*

I'm tired of Trump's petty Twitter fights and thin skin. I'm tired of his constant need for attention and praise and I'm tired of turning on the news every day and finding new ways to be astonished at the capacity for human stupidity and adults at the highest levels of power acting like complete children.

His entire strategy as POTUS seems to be attempting to roll back everything Obama accomplished purely out of spite, reacting to every perceived insult with skin thinner than wet tissue paper and giving MAGA speeches to rally the base while he is systematically doing the opposite of MAGA.

I guess I feel like Bob Corker and I'm tired of pretending the Emperor has no clothes and tolerating those who do.
I sincerely hope daily that Trump is impeached, the 25th amendment is invoked or he get's bored and decides to resign and claim victory so that this nightmare is over sooner than another 3.5 years or so.
Well said OP. I appreciate your post.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:38 PM
 
13,510 posts, read 17,028,088 times
Reputation: 9691
...and still they chime in with their "loony left" "Shillary" and whatever else they heard on Michael Savage.

There are people here trying to have an intelligent discussion about a very serious issue, and the fools, not surprisingly, Trump worshippers, just continue with their sports team mentality.
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