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Old 10-17-2017, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
6,915 posts, read 3,920,235 times
Reputation: 12876

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swilliamsny View Post
Our council was going to sell Sabattis, in Long Lake NY. We've managed to get them to put it off for two years, so now the push is on to get funding and make needed repairs. Despite being a woman, I've managed to build most of our house in PA, so I'll be up there with my tools at the end of the month. (Just have to get my replacement blade guard for my compound miter saw.)
I've been to that camp. I spent two summers at Cedarlands back in 1983 and 1984, when it was the Base Camp for the Voyaguer program. My mom was the camp cook and my oldest brother was on staff (he went through the Voyageur training in 1985). There was a get-together at the end of the summer of 1983 of all the Voyageurs, and I believe it was held at Sabattis. One of the first times I ever got to paddle a canoe (I was 8 at the time).

BTW, is Hoss's Corner Store still in operation???? I used to love going to that place. I was thinking of taking a drive up to Long Lake next week when I am off of work, and I'd love to stop in there.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
6,915 posts, read 3,920,235 times
Reputation: 12876
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The scout law hasn't been relevant since the Trump rally that was his Jambo Speech IMHO.

That said and going back to the topic, I am not surprised in leaders complaining about it. There was one adult who even complained about active female adult leaders in Boy Scouts as far back as 2000. My mother had to deal with this several times.
2000???? My mom was a den mother, summer camp commissioner, among other things, as far back as the late 1970's/early 1980's. She even received the President's Award from Schenectady County Council (now part of Twin Rivers Council of upstate NY) in 1981. No one had a problem with her involvement.

Also keep in mind that the National Jamboree always invites the current POTUS to speak. I know too many Scouts to buy your idea that the Scout Law is no longer relevant. There were a lot of BSA members i know personally who were PO'ed at his speech.
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Old 10-17-2017, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Delaware Native
9,706 posts, read 14,202,136 times
Reputation: 21465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Lorem View Post
The boy scouts have always been about the boys. Sorry.

As for the girl scouts, why can't they include camping, etc..?

The boy scouts is a way for a boy to learn to be a MAN.

Sorry. One more thing going down the tubes in this country. Glad I don't have kids in this generation. They have no guidance at all because the grown ups have no clue.
You and I are WAY to reasonable for this topic. Some just don't understand the difference between a girl and a boy (man or woman). Maybe they should take a course on that topic. Or, like I previously stated.....give these girls/women jobs that men do to prove themselves, like cleaning out sewer rats, digging ditches, and jobs many of our men having physical jobs do. Problem with girls/women these days is they want to have it both ways. They want to be treated like little fluffs, but want to play boys' sports and join boys' clubs/organizations.
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Old 10-17-2017, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
6,915 posts, read 3,920,235 times
Reputation: 12876
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlr View Post
You and I are WAY to reasonable for this topic. Some just don't understand the difference between a girl and a boy (man or woman). Maybe they should take a course on that topic. Or, like I previously stated.....give these girls/women jobs that men do to prove themselves, like cleaning out sewer rats, digging ditches, and jobs many of our men having physical jobs do. Problem with girls/women these days is they want to have it both ways. They want to be treated like little fluffs, but want to play boys' sports and join boys' clubs/organizations.
What does this have to do with BSA letting girls in???? I have two brothers who were in Scouting from Cub Scout all the way up to 18 (my oldest is still an active member, as is my dad an ASM for 39 years), and none of them did any hard, dirty labor except maybe cleaning up one of the camps as part of OA Ordeal weekend, and helping to close up the summer camp when they were part of a council that had one camp (that council merged with several others due to the drop in membership about 27 years ago).

And I personally don't know any men who dig ditches for a living.
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Old 10-17-2017, 01:39 PM
 
36,198 posts, read 30,648,600 times
Reputation: 32475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Lorem View Post
The boy scouts have always been about the boys. Sorry.

As for the girl scouts, why can't they include camping, etc..?

The boy scouts is a way for a boy to learn to be a MAN.

Sorry. One more thing going down the tubes in this country. Glad I don't have kids in this generation. They have no guidance at all because the grown ups have no clue.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how scouts makes one a man.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:14 PM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,227,386 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
If Boy Scouts wants to admit girls, that's their business.

If girls would rather build fires, canoe, do rope courses, ... than sell cookies and work on "being a good sister" patches, so be it.

If Girl Scouts want to keep attracting girls, they are going to have to up their game. Whining about how troops can develop their own outdoor programs is just silly. Groups that could do that wouldn't need to be in Girl Scouts.
You call it whining. I call it a solution. And one that I've seen in action.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:16 PM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,227,386 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
It's ALL about the $$$$$$$$. If you can't entice enough boys to get off their electronics once a week and a few weekends a year, and parents don't have the will or care enough to make their kids get up and do some outdoor activities then as an organization that needs new blood and new membership $$$$$$$ as well as popcorn sellers to survive said organization has to look at other ways to generate the $$$$$$$$ they need to keep paying their salaries and expenses.

Viola! Let's admit girls...
Lots of assumptions here. You must realize there are many other worthwhile activities outside of scouting yes?
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Old 10-17-2017, 03:06 PM
 
20,418 posts, read 12,332,798 times
Reputation: 10200
so honest assessment time.


first I have stated I am for this. I am a Cubmaster and Asst. Scout Master. I have near 10 years involvement in BSA. Any review of my posts on C-D will show I am very much a conservative, both in terms of politics and culture.


BSA has always been the premier youth organization focused on teaching Leadership. There isn't even a second place in my humble opinion. I will say that the only thing that beats the BSA in terms of teaching leadership are internal organizations within BSA that build on the already amazing program like the Order of the Arrow and Mic-O-Say programs. etc.


From that perspective what I know from families with both boys and girls, they see BSA as I do and cannot find something that approximates what BSA does for their daughters. They want that. There is a place for that in the marketplace.


Enter BSA's falling recruitment. BSA needs numbers. BSA has internal pressure to open the program to girls.


This does not have the same feel as the changes that allowed for gay leaders and opening scouting to trans kids. (this is not cretic of those actions simply suggesting this doesn't have the same genesis.That was external, this is internal)


I think this can be a very good thing both for families with Daughters who can benefit from the BSA program and for BSA.


However, I do have some reservations.
1. As much as BSA has been about teaching leadership (a game with a purpose as we like to say) It has a secondary reality of teaching boys how to be men. In that respect BSA is an amazing program that has resisted cultural pressures that have blurred the lines between the sexes. I do not want that to change.


2. Where girls are added in the parts of the program they have not had access to here to fore, I want to see this same approach applied. Teaching girls to be strong women who are independent and capable, but not trying to make men out of them.... or women out of the boys. There are differences. that should be recognized and we should build upon the strengths that come from that.


3. Another amazing thing about BSA is that we have found a way, even considering the cultural pressures managed to remain apolitical by and large. That needs to stay the same. I don't want to see it lurch left or right. Our troop is multi-cultural and covers the entire political spectrum. I oppose any impact that changes this cultural within BSA. Many of the closest relationships my family have are with people we have met thru Scouting. Those families reflect political viewpoints that equal our own and some that are as opposite as humanly possible. That is a very good thing.


Building on that Girl Scouts as a point of reference is very much a political organization. I don't want that kind of culture creep encroaching in on BSA.


4. BSA has never shied away from the concepts of Duty to God. In fact its right there in the first line of the Boy Scout Oath. The brilliance of the BSA is that while its up front, it is defined by the individual Scout, or Scout family. but BSA does lead all Scouts and Scouters to internally reflect on what that means individually and apply those reflections to their daily lives.


The Boys Scouts of America is a wonderful family friendly organization that takes kids, teaches them a game they think is just fun, but in reality is building character, personal strength, confidence, integrity and leadership. I don't know anyone who has been hurt by such things.
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Old 10-17-2017, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,026,027 times
Reputation: 5466
Hmmm. I happened to be BOTH. A boy scout growing up, then a Girl Scout in college, for a summer.
I was a Girl Scout summer camp counselor one summer and was a registered GS .
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Old 10-17-2017, 03:17 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,772 posts, read 44,561,469 times
Reputation: 13611
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI View Post
Hmmm. I happened to be BOTH. A boy scout growing up, then a Girl Scout in college, for a summer.
I was a Girl Scout summer camp counselor one summer and was a registered GS .
That's actually very informative. Did you see a difference between BSA and GSA?
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