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On this will just note that that is not true. Cutlurally black families in America have never fully adhered to a more European/white patriarchal tradition.
Many black feminists argue that many of the issues that occur in black relationships today coincide with gains made by the Civil Rights movement of the 19th century to the mid 20th century climax whereas black men were seeking to be more like white patriarchs.
It is difficult to describe/explain this on a forum. A good author to review on the subject is bell hooks.
But historically the West African tribal nations that black Americans descend from were not a patriarchal society exactly like Europeans. Oftentimes uncles, not fathers were considered of more importance in regards to a male influence amongst offspring in African tribes, which is totally different from white/European traditions. Also, the trials of slavery made it impossible for black Americans to have families that were structured like whites/Europeans and even after emancipation black families were more likely to be extended kin/communal families whereas a large amount of our ancestors lived with/near each other and helped with family responsibilities and child rearing - both men and women participated in working outside the home and in rearing children - this is much different than the white patriarch.
One of black feminism's primary purposes is to inform black men and women of the above and to encourage each other not to accept or judge ourselves, our relationships, and our families based upon a white patriarchal tradition and for our men to not attempt to emulate the white patriarch since the majority of gains made by our demographic in America were achieved without us buying into that patriarchal culture.
residinghere2007, that's interesting. I've never considered it.
Well just as expected, because this discussion requires deeper thought than the feminist careerist rhetoric that tells feminist what they think, very few replied.
Did any men who call themselves feminist respond or don't they want to rock the boat of inequality at home?
No one here thinks feminism stops short of fighting for true equality when they refuse to acknowledge and fight against inequality at home because as a result it negatively effects women's efforts in their career?
Only when they do will I accept that feminist are truly fighting for true equality
Well just as expected, because this discussion requires deeper thought than the canned feminist rhetoric very few replied. Did any men who call themselves feminist respond or don't they want to rock the boat of inequality at home?
No, actually, people refrained from responding when you A. dictated them on how to respond B. made assumptions & stated them as fact C. posted maniacally when no one was responding. Wash, rinse, repeat. THAT is why people stopped responding. You screwed up your own thread, own it.
No, actually, people refrained from responding when you A. dictated them on how to respond B. made assumptions & stated them as fact C. posted maniacally when no one was responding. Wash, rinse, repeat. THAT is why people stopped responding. You screwed up your own thread, own it.
So you believe that all men practice equality at home? Why is equality in the home not mentioned by feminists and instead in your case, you defend their lack of fighting for equality in all area's of a women's life.
Do you see societal expectations that women can "Do it all" hurts them in the workplace? For example feminist fighting for equal pay for women but ignoring that if even taking time off to raise the children, even working part time while the men continue to work, gain experience, get pay raises while the women has taken time off... and that's just one example how inequality at home hurts women at work.
I explained it, please read. Are you one of those men who say you support feminism but just can't understand why having the majority of responsibility at home can hold women back when competing against men at work?
Good point, women often have the double burden of work out of home plus majority/all of the work at home. Feminism is against that too, against the gender norms that determine that females should do the housework/childcare/wife work, against the whole idea of gender really (female and male being sexes, not genders)
Good point, women often have the double burden of work out of home plus majority/all of the work at home. Feminism is against that too, against the gender norms that determine that females should do the housework/childcare/wife work, against the whole idea of gender really (female and male being sexes, not genders)
And that is what I'm saying, if there is inequality at home, who ever has the bigger burden at home will be negatively effected at work.
I ran across an article where Michele Obama was giving a speech encouraging women in leadership positions,... oh wait, I'm sorry I have to cut this speech short, my kids will be getting off the bus soon, I have to pick them up. A meeting with CEO's and she is tired and not prepared for the meeting because the night before she cooked and cleaned the house, ran errands. She/he takes time off work losing experience, promotions and pay raises and then feminist who focus on one party of equality demand equal pay. Or Hillary in a meeting with a world leader but has to go home and cook dinner. Do feminist (both men and women really believe Hillary would have been a presidential nominee if she had to do it all?)
The elitist can focus on their careers because they have paid help (don't have a clue). Everyday women who call themselves feminist but ignore this too (is it because it's not in the script?). Feminist are careerist who don't acknowledge that inequality at home hinder women's (or mens) ability to move to those leadership positions.
And that is what I'm saying, if there is inequality at home, who ever has the bigger burden at home will be negatively effected at work.
I ran across an article where Michele Obama was giving a speech encouraging women in leadership positions,... oh wait, I'm sorry I have to cut this speech short, my kids will be getting off the bus soon, I have to pick them up. Or Hillary in a meeting with a world leader but has to go home and cook dinner. A meeting with CEO's and she is tired and not prepared for the meeting because the night before she cooked and cleaned the house, ran errands. When one takes time off work they lose experience and pay raises and then the feminist movement demands equal pay.
These elitist who can focus on their careers because they have paid help don't have a clue. Feminist are careerist who don't acknowledge that inequality at home hinder women's (or mens) ability to move to those leadership positions.
you can't have it all.
You can't be a CEO of a fortune 500 company and also be a great mom at home.
Why? There are 24 hours in a day. That's it.
To be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you would have to be working 70-80 weeks to prove yourself before even getting the job as CEO. What mother wants to do that for 15-20 years?
Until women understand that "you can have it all" is a lie, they will continue to beat their heads against walls trying to "have it all."
You can't be a CEO of a fortune 500 company and also be a great mom at home.
Why? There are 24 hours in a day. That's it.
To be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you would have to be working 70-80 weeks to prove yourself before even getting the job as CEO. What mother wants to do that for 15-20 years?
Until women understand that "you can have it all" is a lie, they will continue to beat their heads against walls trying to "have it all."
Exactly! Until men and women understand that "you can have it all" is a lie, they will continue to beat their heads against walls trying to "have it all. But some people expect women to do it all.
Someone (men or women) who call themselves feminist demand equality at home they are not true feminist.
Exactly! Until MEN and women understand that "you can have it all" is a lie, they will continue to beat their heads against walls trying to "have it all.
You're not understanding.
If you are working 70-80 hours a week to get that CEO job, you have no family life.
Doesn't matter how much your spouse pitches in, YOU WON'T BE THERE.
There are only 24 hours in a day. Unless you can clone yourself, you will NEVER see your kids.
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