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Old 10-31-2017, 10:06 AM
 
43,587 posts, read 17,966,606 times
Reputation: 28345

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
... "And men and women of good faith on both sides made their stand where their conscience had to make their stand"

...
Conscience? What is he talking about?

Their conscience told them to take up arms against their own country to protect slavery?

Anyone with a conscience would have walked away from this.

Many did.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
35,171 posts, read 22,218,994 times
Reputation: 13791
Tony Benn also said,

All war represents a failure of diplomacy.

This doesn't mean SOME wars are not justified, this only means ALL wars represents a failure of diplomacy.

Diplomacy require compromise. No more/less.

It is not like Gen Kelly said anything out of ordinary here, sheesh.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,780 posts, read 21,662,593 times
Reputation: 24698
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillman7 View Post
Kelly is just showing us who he really is, nothing more.

He's shamelessly licking tRump's boots.

It's embarrassing.

What was that about "integrity?"

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Old 10-31-2017, 10:07 AM
 
Location: the Sticks
13,829 posts, read 3,756,481 times
Reputation: 7493
There were many issues that caused the civil war. Slavery was a big one, but lets face facts. Northern Whites were not all that concerned about the welfare of black slaves. Your average Union soldier wasn't fighting and dying because they felt ending slavery was worth the sacrifice of their life. Some may have felt that way, but certainly not all or most.
It was a different day. Loyalty to state was right there with loyalty to country. Kelly is correct in that the Civil war was absolutely the result of a failure to compromise or to seek consensus. Diplomacy failed.
By today's standards Lee was a traitor to the United States. Back then State's rights were a major concern and the threat of big government and excessive taxation were as well. WE may have won the civil war but lost on the last 2. Now we are an entitlement driven welfare state.
Robert E Lee was a mentor to many of our great military leaders of the day. One can praise an enemy and still respect them, nothing wrong with that.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
35,171 posts, read 22,218,994 times
Reputation: 13791
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
There were many issues that caused the civil war. Slavery was a big one, but lets face facts. Northern Whites were not all that concerned about the welfare of black slaves. Your average Union soldier wasn't fighting and dying because they felt ending slavery was worth the sacrifice of their life. Some may have felt that way, but certainly not all or most.
It was a different day. Loyalty to state was right there with loyalty to country. Kelly is correct in that the Civil war was absolutely the result of a failure to compromise or to seek consensus. Diplomacy failed.
By today's standards Lee was a traitor to the United States. Back then State's rights were a major concern and the threat of big government and excessive taxation were as well. WE may have won the civil war but lost on the last 2. Now we are an entitlement driven welfare state.
Robert E Lee was a mentor to many of our great military leaders of the day. One can praise an enemy and still respect them, nothing wrong with that.
Exactly.

Like I posted earlier,

Tony Benn also said,

All war represents a failure of diplomacy.

Jesse Ventura also made similar comment.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:10 AM
 
43,587 posts, read 17,966,606 times
Reputation: 28345
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
...
By today's standards Lee was a traitor to the United States. ...
By yesterday's standards Lee was a traitor.

He did not take an oath to Virginia.

He took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and the United States of America.

He was a slave owner who sided with other slave owners, and led an army against the U.S.A.

That's treason.

Lee was a traitor.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
35,171 posts, read 22,218,994 times
Reputation: 13791
War isn’t civilized. War is failure. It is the ultimate result of a breakdown in public policy.” –the 38th Governor of Minnesota Jesse Ventura

“War is failure of diplomacy.” –US Congressman John Dingell

“As far as I’m concerned, war always means failure.” –former French President Jacques Chirac

“War is an admission of failure” –author K.J. Parker

‎”The guns and the bombs, the rockets and the warships, are all symbols of human failure.” –former US President Lyndon B Johnson

“All wars are follies, very expensive and very mischievous ones.” –Benjamin Franklin

“War is the greatest plague that can affect humanity; it destroys religion, it destroys states, it destroys families. Any scourge is preferable to it.” –Reformation leader Martin Luther



That is why war is the last resort, not first.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:11 AM
 
5,429 posts, read 2,463,227 times
Reputation: 2518
General Kelly should be stripped of all his military honors.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,780 posts, read 21,662,593 times
Reputation: 24698
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillman7 View Post
General Kelly should be stripped of all his military honors.
No way!

What he did and accomplished in his billet as a Marine officer stands apart from his current episode of polishing tRump's apples.

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Old 10-31-2017, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts & Hilton Head, SC
8,263 posts, read 12,474,353 times
Reputation: 6643
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
There were many issues that caused the civil war. Slavery was a big one, but lets face facts. Northern Whites were not all that concerned about the welfare of black slaves. Your average Union soldier wasn't fighting and dying because they felt ending slavery was worth the sacrifice of their life. Some may have felt that way, but certainly not all or most.
It was a different day. Loyalty to state was right there with loyalty to country. Kelly is correct in that the Civil war was absolutely the result of a failure to compromise or to seek consensus. Diplomacy failed.
By today's standards Lee was a traitor to the United States. Back then State's rights were a major concern and the threat of big government and excessive taxation were as well. WE may have won the civil war but lost on the last 2. Now we are an entitlement driven welfare state.
Robert E Lee was a mentor to many of our great military leaders of the day. One can praise an enemy and still respect them, nothing wrong with that.

Good summation. And the OP was wrong, Gen. Kelly is not from South Boston, he's from Brighton.
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