U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,404 posts, read 15,827,676 times
Reputation: 9901

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
My point was, these two kids, Martin and Cruz would have been arrested if the schools policys weren't implemented.
NICS checks are only as good as the data submitted.
They realized this with the ex AF guy who had other than honorable discharge. If entered, the NICS would have flagged him.
Dylan Roof would have been flagged, but legally allowed to buy as he had a pending felony charge. Due Process, as he wasn't guilty.
FBI is overwhelmed nationwide, we know that.
The ones that aren't overwhelmed, friends and family.. Family intervention should be more than a text.
I agree that family is a part of it. the family dynamic of the school shooter era of violence is dual income if not broken homes. They don't have a moral compass help guide them. Not saying parents are the missing key, but a part of it.

That said the issue is these documented issues often leads to no flagging. The Tuscon shooter from January 2011 got thrown out of community college for being disruptive yet was still able to buy a gun after that. As far as I know, his family unit wad fairly good.

I am glad to see you don't blame the FBI for going after Trump like some Trump Republicans have done. The FBI has to deal with threats across the nation. Any bomb threat against a school, government building, etc. becomes a federal investigation. They also handle every case of white powder going out to the media, politicians or other public figures. They deal with a lot.

Even local police do. Even I make comment of 19 calls of concern should raising flags. That said, it is tough. How many fake calls are made to police daily? These have weight but to arrest someone on a threat, there is damning evidence of a true threat and not just an "my roommate is driving me insane, I'm gonna kill 'em" statement which is hyperbole and exaggerating. Maybe some were these, I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Here is the problem. No one wants to listen.
Years ago, when my daughter was in HS she ended up dating a guy that is exactly the same as what they are describing about Cruz. This kid was creepy , but super intelligent, but was diagnosed as bi polar, schizophrenia and anger issues. We did not know it at the time , but it manifested itself. We later found that he had bounced around from foster home to foster home and ended up with his aunt and uncle. They didn't seem to care to much what he did. He was bullied in school and always seemed to be getting in fights. As things progressed we started paying more attention. We were monitoring their texts and he didn't like taking his meds , so he quit them. He got controlling and even defied us several times. One of his texts he was angry about something and made a comment about what was going to happen in school the next day. So the wife and I went and talked to the counselor and principal. When it was done and over with, they made us feel like the bad people, and basically told us to mind our own business. We then went and talked with the aunt and uncle and got the same treatment.


Flash forward to now. Our daughter has been apart from him for years but it nearly ruined our relationship with her. His goal of joining the military didn't happen due to his illnesses. He is out of state but our daughter hears things and sees stuff on FB. He has gotten into guns and has bought several. Personally, I think it is only a matter of time before he does something. Sadly, I'm sure my wife , daughter and I will probably be on his target list.
This is a perfect example of someone that should not be able to purchase and or own a firearm.
This is the problem too. Even when threats are warranted, we are I'll prepared to do something. We have an issue of weighting individual's rights versus our rights. Until the point that God forbid something happens to one of us, a family member, a friend, a neighbor, a co-worker, etc. we can't do much unless the proof is there of an imminent threat.

 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Colorado
826 posts, read 300,375 times
Reputation: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
You started out with an insult , which in my mind puts anything you say as irrelevant. Want a decent debate, act like an adult.


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to scarabchuck again."
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:02 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,275 posts, read 32,238,652 times
Reputation: 19825
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
If it's a high amount of non-compliance, then put harsher financial penalties. Allow the IRS to garnish their paycheck until otherwise they can prove that they turned in their firearms. Jail time is for those who will do everything at all costs to avoid turning in their guns.
Again, these are not in any database and we have only required paper work since a few years ago. For all purposes these are "ghost guns". Door to door inspections are an option.

I'm positive the government has no way of knowing where firearms are located. In my case I think I've got paperwork for 2 firearms. That doesn't reflect the number I actually have.

Until a certain year firearms didn't even have a distinct serial number which is required now for any registration.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:03 AM
 
10,259 posts, read 6,302,533 times
Reputation: 5784
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
And how do you know?

For all I know, remove all the guns off the street = creates a black market for guns. Criminals who has guns will want to sell it on the black market since the price will be high to cash out. If you create a financial incentive for criminals, they will go for it. They don't care about their "right" to own a gun if they're a criminal, that's not their interest.

How do I know ? I watch my local news and see shooting after shooting being done by teens, and or convicted felons. The fact that they even have a firearm proves they are willing to break the law and don't care. You really aren't this nave are you ?
Your last sentence is quite laughable. I'm pretty sure criminals don't have firearms because they think it is their right....
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:03 AM
 
Location: NH
2,232 posts, read 2,298,471 times
Reputation: 2933
I have 5 guns at my home and not one of them is registered. I live in NH and I am not required to do so. How can you prove I even own one?
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,718 posts, read 1,185,880 times
Reputation: 1683
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Again, these are not in any database and have only required paper work since a few years ago. For all purposes these are "ghost guns". Door to door inspections are an option.
You wouldn't need a database. You could generally find out where most of the guns are just by running some statistical analysis. You would figure out where all the gun shops sold their guns and how many, and you can reasonably assume the people who bought their guns there, will most likely still be living in the same neighborhood.

You wouldn't need to try to find a bunch of guns in California. CA already has a set of strict gun laws in place.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,718 posts, read 1,185,880 times
Reputation: 1683
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
How do I know ? I watch my local news and see shooting after shooting being done by teens, and or convicted felons. The fact that they even have a firearm proves they are willing to break the law and don't care. You really aren't this nave are you ?
Your last sentence is quite laughable. I'm pretty sure criminals don't have firearms because they think it is their right....
Laughable? Just think about....

What do criminals want? They want something of value that they cannot get legally (money, drugs, etc..). So the only way they can do that is by overpowering normal regular citizens. Guns give them this ability.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:09 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,275 posts, read 32,238,652 times
Reputation: 19825
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
You wouldn't need a database. You could generally find out where most of the guns are just by running some statistical analysis. You would figure out where all the gun shops sold their guns and how many, and you can reasonably assume the people who bought their guns there, will most likely still be living in the same neighborhood.

You wouldn't need to try to find a bunch of guns in California. CA already has a set of strict gun laws in place.
I live in CA. Say I have 35 firearms. They show up for the two on record and we do the transaction that gives those 2 to the govt and they cut me a check. Now what. I've collected firearms my entire life living all over the US. Mostly private legal sales with no paperwork. The people that sold me firearms didn't even know my name.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:10 AM
 
29,794 posts, read 16,481,513 times
Reputation: 13850
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Laughable? Just think about....

What do criminals want? They want something of value that they cannot get legally (money, drugs, etc..). So the only way they can do that is by overpowering normal regular citizens. Guns give them this ability.
And you'd like the now unarmed normal regular citizens be held defenseless to the demands of the criminals.
 
Old 02-20-2018, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,404 posts, read 15,827,676 times
Reputation: 9901
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
If not having the staff armed, at least have a couple of armed security personnel on sight. And do away with the gun free zone BS.


I work for a major corporation. Unfortunately our campus of 12,000 is a gun free zone, not happy with that but work is work. A couple of years ago there was a stabbing, which was thwarted by someone that did not comply with the gun free campus rules. He saved the victims life. Since then , all our security staff are now armed. If we can do this at work, why not our schools ? I don't understand why anyone would be against this.
A school can have police on premises with guns. The gun free zone means that students, visitors and non officer staff cannot have guns. It don't means no guns period like many seem to think it does. States can create ways to have more authorized guns on campus, but that often becomes a controversial issue. The Gun-free zone was originated by H.W. Bush signing it into law in 1990.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:12 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top