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Old 02-15-2018, 02:23 PM
 
3,093 posts, read 823,205 times
Reputation: 1755

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Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
And thats pretty much my point, I don't have stats either so I can' claim it as fact. But we have a nation of incredibly angry and violent people mixed with a huge drug abuse problem, and we keep talking like modifying a few gun laws is the answer? Thats the low hanging fruit and its nowhere near as impact as fixing the root cause of the problem.
Yes ... we were in concurrence on the societal issues ... do you seriously think the root cause of the problem can be "fixed" - particularly if it has its roots in American culture?

Occasional shootings? Suicides? Domestic violence? Drug-gangs? These we've historically tolerated but with the increase in the number of the school shootings the math is changing.

So ...your "low hanging fruit" (gun laws)? Your context, I think, is that it's low-hanging because it's easy to blame guns. What if it's low-hanging because it's (legislation) comparative easy to DO?

There are two major variables, both with a low probability of occurrence:

GUNS (the vast majority will not be used in a shooting) x PERSONS WITH EMOTIONAL DIFFICULTIES (the vast majority will never commit a shooting).

Can school shootings be stopped? Probably not. Should a society try, addressing all the most relevant variables? How can the answer be anything other than of course?

 
Old 02-15-2018, 02:26 PM
Status: "\_(ツ)_/" (set 16 days ago)
 
11,383 posts, read 5,965,849 times
Reputation: 3599
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Yes ... we were in concurrence on the societal issues ... do you seriously think the root cause of the problem can be "fixed" - particularly if it has its roots in American culture?

Occasional shootings? Suicides? Domestic violence? Drug-gangs? These we've historically tolerated but with the increase in the number of the school shootings the math is changing.

So ...your "low hanging fruit" (gun laws)? Your context, I think, is that it's low-hanging because it's easy to blame guns. What if it's low-hanging because it's (legislation) comparative easy to DO?

There are two major variables, both with a low probability of occurrence:

GUNS (the vast majority will not be used in a shooting) x PERSONS WITH EMOTIONAL DIFFICULTIES (the vast majority will never commit a shooting).

Can school shootings be stopped? Probably not. Should a society try, addressing all the most relevant variables? How can the answer be anything other than of course?
Metal detectors and security guards or other security measures. Its 100x easier to add elements to a situation rather than try to take away a tool that is used to react to the problem or root cause.

Like someone said elsewhere, nobody is shooting up banks, airports, armored cars, police stations, court houses. Schools have almost no security.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
18,187 posts, read 10,145,892 times
Reputation: 7061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
If we can't get laws passed to enact reasonable gun controls maybe we need to start by passing laws that prevents house and senate members at the federal and state levels from taking a single penny from the NRA. I'll bet they'll start governing differently if they aren't beholding to their nursemaid.
The NRA spent over $400 million lobbying last year. I'm waiting to hear how much of it came from Russia to help Trump.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
2,696 posts, read 988,733 times
Reputation: 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
And thats pretty much my point, I don't have stats either so I can' claim it as fact. But we have a nation of incredibly angry and violent people mixed with a huge drug abuse problem, and we keep talking like modifying a few gun laws is the answer? Thats the low hanging fruit and its nowhere near as impact as fixing the root cause of the problem.
I can't really speak to Japan's culture, but you might be right. If it indeed is the case that we're more violent as a people, I wonder what it is about our culture that makes us that way. I think that explanation for our homicides is the more frustrating one because if it's true we probably can't pinpoint the exact "root cause" of this aspect of our culture. And that just leaves us right back where we started, just shrugging and saying this is simply the way things are.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 02:28 PM
 
9,602 posts, read 4,601,933 times
Reputation: 5464
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffaemily View Post
My problem with restricting gun ownership is what it would mean for rural area's. The nearest police law enforcement to us is 37 minutes away, If someone broke into my house I'm not waiting for 37 minutes for the police to show up and risk my life and my families life. I mean gun control may work in a place where there's a cop on every street, and you can call and have them show up right away, but for many rural residents that's not the case, and a gun is a good protection.

Furthermore, I have wolves, bears, coyotes, and other deadly animals right outside my door. If I didn't have a gun and a wolf or bear charged me, how am I suppose to protect myself? Bear Spray will just p*** them off. I have a right as a rural resident to defend myself when the government will not.

Also what about the Alaskan Natives who hunt with guns for subsistence. Are we just suppose to say to them sorry you need to give up your livelihood because people in the cities can't handle guns?
I live in a small town and police response is 15-20 minutes. Those in the county can wait 30-45 minutes or more, if anyone responds. On second and 3rd shift there is one deputy to cover a 25 mile x 25 mile county. In the city, we have 2 officers for 8,000 people.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 02:31 PM
 
3,093 posts, read 823,205 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Anyone could make a bomb or chemical weapon from readily available items. Even if you succeeded in confiscating every single gun in the U.S. we'd still have these killers. They would just change weapons.
We *would* still have the killers who for whatever motivation choose to use bombs or chemical weapons. But that school killers would change weapons is highly uncertain.

Don't have the stats, but many knife killings are intensely personal and profoundly messy. That's not the profile of most of the school killers.

Too, pressure cookers (and bombs) tend to be used by terrorists (the the Unabomber, the Boston marathon massacre, overseas terrorism).

Those terrorists don't necessarily NEED to see their victims die but to instead disrupt society, instill fear, make a political statement.

Plus, it's hard to discount the role that shooting apps and the like have in both training/desensitizing these kids and young adults.

Guns fit into their own killer-niche - one of which is to take them into a school and mow kids down.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Alaska
417 posts, read 225,375 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
I live in a small town and police response is 15-20 minutes. Those in the county can wait 30-45 minutes or more, if anyone responds. On second and 3rd shift there is one deputy to cover a 25 mile x 25 mile county. In the city, we have 2 officers for 8,000 people.
Yep that's just the reality of living in a rural area there are 0.0 cops per square mile in my state. But my state also has the highest rape rate. I just don't trust the cops to protect me, whereas I can protect myself with a gun.

https://steemit.com/police/@libertyl...7911t72659943z

Why Does Alaska Have Such A High Rate Rape - BI
 
Old 02-15-2018, 02:41 PM
 
3,093 posts, read 823,205 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Metal detectors and security guards or other security measures. Its 100x easier to add elements to a situation rather than try to take away a tool that is used to react to the problem or root cause.

Like someone said elsewhere, nobody is shooting up banks, airports, armored cars, police stations, court houses. Schools have almost no security.
C'mon, the reason these killers are targeting schools is almost certainly due to personal issues and/or the impact that deaths of children have on the public. A police station just won't cut it here - although other killer-profiles DO focus on cops.

And the schools have added *some* security. Apparently, there was a guard at this school but he was not in the right place at the right time. These shootings go down in seconds - aided by the type of weaponry.

No doubt that a shooter would take out a single guard standing by a metal detector. Or do the fire-alarm trick and shoot as the kids came outside. Or ... or ... or ...

Add full security details at every single school entrance (multiple back-up AT the facility)? Functional? Workable? Some terrorist shot up the airport in Amsterdam last year.

It DOES come down to a cost-benefit ratio analysis, for sure. And how many dead kids before "something."
 
Old 02-15-2018, 03:11 PM
 
23,109 posts, read 12,300,165 times
Reputation: 7309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
I am not sure what you are asking. AR-15's are semi automatic rifles. This means with one pull of the trigger, a bullet is fired. For each shot you must pull the trigger, then let it reset. With full auto, you can just pull the trigger once, hold it down, and the gun keeps firing until you release the trigger, or you run out of cartridges.

The AR-15 fires a small, .22 caliber bullet of typically 40 - 75 grains in weight. Rifles designed for larger game often have larger bullets, and cartridges weighing more than twice that, (140 - 170 grains). The reason the AR-15 is popular is its accuracy, and modularity so you can tailor its use for target shooting, competition, hunting, and home defense.

I don't know if I answered your question.
It does explain a little more....and confuses me a little more. Thanks for taking the time.

I do appreciate it.
 
Old 02-15-2018, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,107 posts, read 2,781,105 times
Reputation: 4366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Folks, this is what the gun nuts do. They deflect, deny, obfuscate. They bring up knives, cars, explosives. Self-firing guns, even. Anything to hide their complicity in the atrocities they enable.

These kinds of replies and the unwillingness to accept responsibility that they reveal are proof that guns must be controlled far more stringently than now.

These people can only be trusted with one gun, maybe two. And only a gun that can be loaded with a single bullet. No cartridges or magazines or other devices that makes it easy to kill a lot people quickly.

Nuts who are found in possession of guns more lethal than these (once they are prohibited) should be imprisoned. They are clearly menaces to society.





And calling people "gun nuts" is how the anti gun Left obfuscates the issue.

Anyone who blames the gun and "gun nuts" looses credibility from word one.
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