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Give me a God damn break. YOU"RE NO GUN OWNER. Your disdain for gun owners and the type of guns they own is proof of that. Why don't you just get off of your self righteous soapbox and for once be honest about it.
Sorry, but your inability to grasp that some people can own guns, hunt, and carry for protection without being a gun cultist is irrelevant to actual fact. I own 3 guns , as that's all I need. Well , 4 if you count the old shotgun of my granddads with the firing pin removed. 1 shotgun, 1 lever action deer rifle , and a handgun I acquired simply because of the proliferation of these nutters. I am by no means an aficionado that oohs and ahhs over how cool guns are. They are tools , for hunting and for protection , that's all.
But you are correct in that I disdain the adolescent gun cultist mentality that can be manipulated by gun manufacturers convincing them they can become more manly by buying their cool AR15 clone.
Bull crap. Army troops are a year or 2 older than high school students, they are just as likely as anyone else to get in arguments and fights off post. But, weapons are very much restricted on base. And that is the difference,
So what? I know junior high students that know more about gun respect and gun safety than you ever will.
Only a roomful of untrained people with guns could create the scenario in your fantasy. That is not reality. No one wants untrained people to carry guns.
So what? I know junior high students that know more about gun respect and gun safety than you ever will.
Only a roomful of untrained people with guns could create the scenario in your fantasy. That is not reality. No one wants untrained people to carry guns.
Training is the difference, not age.
Limiting access to weapons is the only sane solution.
Most kids carry their back packs around all day -- or in our school they do. It is a very real possibility because then the kids can try to protect themselves.
Isn't that sad -- we want to arm our kids so they won't get shot or provide them with bullet proof clothing/accessories to protect them.
I don't care why -- I just care that's where the USA is going.
Are we all going to be needing guns to go to the movies, shopping, concerts, etc.
If the wrong people do not use the backpacks; it could be a useful tool
Actually I see this as one more useful tool that our kids have to not only protect themselves; but also to turn the tide against the shooter. I still feel that training our kids to defend themselves is the very best protection against another school shooting. We cannot count on police protection when it is needed. These shooting happen too fast and the only ones there are the victims.
What would happen if we took this bullet proof idea one more step? Either have unfold side panels to the backpacks so they looked more like a shield. Or even have classrooms stocked with swat type, but lighter, full shields so that every child could grab one? It could make it easy for a class to act as a team and disarm the attacker.
Attacks, like this last one, scare our kids; we leave them feeling impotent. Empowerment can ease some of those fears.
No it isn't reasonable, and that is why no one believes your "reasonable gun control" lies.
You think banning 130 year old technology will accomplish anything? Yes 130 years that's how long semi automatic firearms with detachable magazines have been around. Instead of focusing on the rifle just maybe you could focus on WHY some people are doing this today.
What kind of fool thinks the opposite of banning something is arming and training child killers? You voted for Hillary, didn't you.
Does anyone really think if we some how, some way managed to remove all semi autos mass shootings would stop? I hope we aren't THAT stupid. I own some pump and lever guns that are almost as fast they just require a minimal arm movement. Heck, I even have speed loaders for tube fed for competitions.
Limiting access to weapons is the only sane solution.
All that serves to do is drive guns underground.
I can assure you that no matter how strict the laws become, if I wanted to get my hands on one I could do so. Then, once I have it, I have free reign because all the good citizens who would never turn to the black market are unarmed.
After all, we have been "limiting access" to drugs, and how has that worked out? Drugs are more available than ever.
the gun cultists who complain about any sort of limitation on their rights to have their toys.
^ False equivalency between "gun cultists" which would be 2nd Amendment Proponents, and
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Originally Posted by wallflash
nutters that are granted easy access to their favorite weapon by the gun cultists
We don't endorse these scumbags nor their actions... yet you keep drawing a connection between them and 2nd amendment proponents. Why?
Because you focus on the implement. Without being insulting, I'm engaging you civilly and not insulting by the way, you have a short sighted approach to this issue and keep drawing a conclusion that if so and so committed an atrocity with an AR15, then everyone who promotes the right to keep and have access to AR15s, is endorsing these heinous acts... that's wrong.
Example of you doing it
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Originally Posted by wallflash
To pretend otherwise is to simply refuse to pay attention to what is being said. I do not think most gun owners are potential mass murderers.
You don't believe most gun owners are potential mass murderers. But...
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Originally Posted by wallflash
value their rights to play with their toys more than they value the rights of children to not get shot by the nutters that are granted easy access to their favorite weapon by the gun cultists who complain about any sort of limitation on their rights to have their toys.
Nobody. Not even the NRA who you somehow hold such contempt for, endorses nor supports these actions... yet, you claimed previously the NRA is responsible.
Your words exactly.
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Originally Posted by wallflash
As a gun owner who has some disdain for the semi auto rifle and its aficionados due to the mindset of so many I have met in person and talked with on the net, I am to the point I have to agree with the concept of arming schools. But this is a sad admission of the road the NRA and the gun cultists have led us down more than anything else...
Now,thanks to the NRA ,we live in a world in which we will soon shop for bulletproof accessories for our children, and have armed men roaming the halls of our schools, with the inevitable accidental shooting of a kid pulling something from his backpack that an ex military school guard mistakes for a gun.
Are you retracting this previous statement?
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Originally Posted by wallflash
What is being said is that the more militant gun owners
I've asked you before for what you meant by gun aficionados and so forth, you did not elaborate I'll ask again. And now more specifically, what do you mean by more militant gun owners...
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Originally Posted by wallflash
( since some gun owners are understanding that there is an issue with basically unrestrained access to high capacity quick firing rifles)
Fingers. Fingers determine how quick a rifle fires... going to come for fingers now?
Again... it's the person not the weapon that determines it's capabilities...
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Originally Posted by wallflash
value their rights to play with their toys more
Firearms aren't toys...
Exercising 2nd Amendment rights, is not playing...
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Originally Posted by wallflash
than they value the rights of children to not get shot by the nutters that are granted easy access to their favorite weapon by the gun cultists who complain about any sort of limitation on their rights to have their toys.
Not one person has come forth in support of these heinous attacks. I have said since I was 15 years old, I support a proactive measure to protect and safeguard classrooms and students.
I have said since 15 years old I do not believe schools should be gun free zones.
The lawmakers who've removed the constitutional protected right to keep and bear arms for lawful defense are whom you have a problem with number 1. Number 2 your issue is with the same scumbags I have a problem with.
Or are you implying I'm a gun nutter equally guilty as these scumbags because I believe in the 2nd Amendment completely from flint lock to full auto should be available to the public unrestricted? Because I do believe we all should have access to everything no limitations unless you are a deranged sick sadistic piece of crap making threats online, in person, and violent offender/felons.
Nowhere have I endorsed these vile heinous acts...
The so-called "gun control" advocates have spent the last several decades proving (inadvertently) that their half measures do not work. "Assault weapons" bans, waiting periods, "gun free" zones, background checks, and all the rest rarely reduce the crime rate, and often result in an increase instead. And yet they keep coming back and saying we need "just a little more" of their "reasonable restrictions".
When they point to countries whose results they like, they invariably point to places like England, Japan, Australia, etc. - countries that have almost completely banned guns from their subjects.
Take the hint.
In fact, complete bans of all guns are the only things that have ever reduced "gun crimes". And they must be accompanied by ruthless confiscation. Advocates who say they want "just some reasonable regulations", know by now they won't work. The only thing they could now be intending, is an eventual complete ban on all guns. While pretending they will do only just a little, to fool you into going along with "just a little". And then next year, just a little more.
Their total gun bans must be accompanied by SWAT teams going door to door to every house and apartment in America, taking people's guns whether they want to give them up or not. They know that many people will object to giving up their guns voluntarily... but a gun ban won't work unless everybody turns in their guns.
Advocates who say they want a few "reasonable regulations", are either astonishingly ignorant of the results of their own policies, or are lying to you.
NRA was able to take your critical thinking skills away.
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Of all of the lobbying organizations I’ve studied over the past twenty years, not one of them has done a better job using fear and false dichotomies than the NRA. Today’s NRA rhetoric employs the ominous they and forces “us versus them” language over and over. Allow anyone to buy any type of gun and ammunition, when and wherever they want, or they will break down your door, take away your guns, crush your freedom, kill everyone you love, and put an end to the American way. They are after us. They are coming. That’s the biggest bunch of bull**** I’ve heard since someone told me, “If you own a gun—any gun—you might as well be the one pulling the trigger in all of these terrible mass shootings.”
Since the enactment of the Brady law on March 1, 1994, through December 31, 2012, background checks blocked more than 2.4 million prohibited purchasers like domestic abusers, convicted felons, mentally ill persons, and other dangerous individuals from purchasing a firearm or receiving a permit to purchase or carry a firearm.1
In 2012 alone, background checks blocked 192,043 prohibited persons from gaining access to firearms,2 including 82,000 felons or roughly 225 felons every day.3
Statistics reported by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence confirm that background checks work and have had a significant positive impact on national crime rates. Before the Brady law was enacted, America’s gun homicide rate was on a dramatic rise, increasing by 55 percent from 1984 to 1993 even as non-gun homicides were falling over this period.4 After Brady background checks were required, however, gun murders began to steadily decline and ultimately fell by 32 percent from 1993 to 2006.5 The rate of robberies and aggravated assaults committed with firearms also decreased by 42 percent over this period.
Out of curiosity, not spite, What exactly is the mindset of afficianados that you've engaged with? I'm asking genuinely and sincerely. Not looking to insult or engage in fueling a divide.
It is best identified by the ads you see for guns, like the Bushmaster ad convincing many buyers that they could regain their manhood by buying the Bushmaster. Or the Sig ads designed to appeal to this teenage type mentality. Or the neighbor that brought over the first AR15 I ever saw to show me how "really cool and badass" his new gun was. Or in the words of the gun shop owner who inadvertently let out that "many of his buyers want to feel like soldiers without joining the military".
Many are just little GI Joe types playing with their cool toys. Any time spent on a gun site will shbow you this.
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This is not what the NRA promotes nor endorses...
Nowhere in the history of the NRA has the NRA nor Its members and leaders promoted or endorsed these heinous attacks... nowhere.
You have every right to show disdain or dislike for the NRA. You can not equivalate the NRA, its leaders, its members to a nefarious actor.
I didn't say they endorsed these attacks. I said their childish insistence on their rights at the cost of others rights to remain alive has led to what we see today.
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I think you have a typo, I believe at the end you meant, so I am armed to Protect myself not only from ordinary criminals but from blood lusting deranged.
I felt confident in my shotgun for ordinary criminals. I got the handgun to deal with gun nutters.
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That is hyperbole. Nor would that be a reality. Where has anyone promoted such an idea? You don't shoot first and ask later. Even police are trained only to use lethal force IF a legitimate threat exists. Meaning orders were not obeyed. No such event would exist and you know it.
Again. It is not the NRA responsible for this. That is a false equivalency.
Certainly, we have no examples of police shooting innocent people by mistake, do we? Ones that are almost certainly better trained than the armed school guards will be.
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No. Acknowledging a threat exists and developing proactive solutions is not sick. Equate these scumbags to cancer/tumors.
Having to consider outfitting children in bullet proof gear and having armed guards roam school grounds most certainly is a sign of a sick society that has let the gun cultists lead us down a terrible road,which was my point. It might be our best solution NOW , now that our society has devolved to this point due to the gun cultists , but its still a sign of a sick society.
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Bombings-we blame bombers.
DWI fatalities, we blame the drunk. Not the vehicle not the alcohol.
Why can't we acknowledge the shooter is to blame? Honest question.
The shooter IS to blame. Not a single person claims differently, so you are being disingenuous if you claim otherwise. What is also being said is that these nutters have way too easy access to the tools to commit these murders due to the gun cultists insisting on having their toys.
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Why is it the NRAs fault? I do expect some honesty here, as the NRA is not to blame here. They don't promote endorse nor support these heinous crimes.
Why equate the NRA to that of the Taliban or ISIS?
Because it is the NRA that spends millions, maybe billions over the decades, lobbying to stop any and all sensible gun control. Even when 90% of the US supports some version of it, the NRA spends its money to stop it. They are extremely complicit in these shootings.
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Again. Not being a wiseass or a punk. You and I have a common problem to solve. You claim it's the NRA.
I simply ask for proof that supports your opinion.
How about every other civilized country in the world not having our problem? Im am interested in an honest answer. Why are we the only non two bit country looking to arm our teachers and outfit our kids in bullet proof gear to keep them from being killed in mass shootings regularly?
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