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Old 11-15-2017, 02:42 AM
 
Location: Bidford-on-Avon, England
1,202 posts, read 382,977 times
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But in Seattle the sun sets before 4.30pm, and putting the clocks back results in the solar noon occurring before actual noon which is ridiculous!
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:07 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,394 posts, read 3,890,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsonj417 View Post
I live in the UK and I've been on BST (British Summer Time) since October last year. I'm probably weird but I don't like sunset suddenly shifting an hour earlier when it is already early enough. Turns out I'm not the only one https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...me-health-fuel

Personally I think it is ludicrous to have the solar noon before actual noon. It's not as bad where I live but in the Lowestoft in East Anglia the solar noon is as early as 11:33 after the change to GMT. It doesn't make sense at this high latitude to change the clocks back, as there simply is not enough daylight in the evening to do so, regardless of how dark the mornings may otherwise get. It does make sense at lower latitudes for example the Canary Islands, as there is enough evening daylight to do so.

Some people seem to celebrate when the clocks go back. They think of that extra hour of daylight in the morning. Personally I think it is a waste, especially when you consider that hour is soon lost. I am absolutely fed up of the government telling us what to do, robbing us of an hour of daylight in the evening. There is absolutely no talk about even doing a trial scheme. I have emailed my MP and set up a petition with no success. I just think there would be so many benefits and it has been trialed before in WW2 and between 1968 and 1971.

Efforts were also squandered in 2012 when the daylight savings bill put forward by Rebecca Harris MP was taken down by just a few MPs.

It's not just the UK that's on the wrong time zone. Nevada has some ridiculously early sunsets for the latitude in the winter. In fact daylight is so much in favour of the mornings that it has some of the earliest solar noons on the planet. Winter mornings in Las Vegas are as light as summer mornings in Spain at the same latitude . At least there is some talk of changing the time there.

All in all it just doesn't make sense that the UK is on this timezone when you consider than equivalent latitudes in Mongolia and Canada don't change the clocks. Also flying west from London to Madrid results in the clocks going forward an hour, and much of France and Spain are the same longitude as the UK and yet we are one hour behind them .

I just wondered if there is anyone else who doesn't change their clocks or would like their government to change their time zone?
The UK changed the clocks twice, once during the Second World War to help munitions factories maximise productivity and allow people to get home safely before the blackout and between 1968 and 1971 the Government carried out the same experiment but was forced to end it after complaints in Scotland and northern England.

When Do Clocks Go Back In October 2017?

The net result of any change could be different time zones for England and Scotland, as the Scottish are generally opposed to such a change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC

Conservative MP Rebecca Harris, whose constituency is in Essex, recently tabled a private members' bill seeking to establish British Summer Time in the winter. Her argument is that it would give us daylight when we could use it most.

But Labour MSP James Kelly reacted to the news by arguing it would "plunge" Scotland into darkness.

He said: "It would cause grave concerns if we're trying to get more young people to walk to school. If it's going to be dark until 10 o'clock in many places in Scotland, then that wouldn't be achieved. And it would seriously undermine the safety of individuals."

The Scottish government has also opposed any switch on similar grounds, as have the Scottish Conservatives who say road safety would be "a hugely pressing concern".

Scottish Secretary Michael Moore has also poured cold water on the PSI report, claiming that the majority of business and industry leaders in Scotland are against a shift to Central European Time.

A question of time: changing the clocks - BBC News
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsonj417 View Post
But in Seattle the sun sets before 4.30pm, and putting the clocks back results in the solar noon occurring before actual noon which is ridiculous!
How is that ridiculous, in December, solar noon in Seattle averages around 11:50am or later, on December 21st, solar noon in Seattle is at 12:06pm. Did you know that solar noon varies throughout the year by about a range of 30 mins?
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:17 AM
 
29,587 posts, read 16,337,314 times
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Dont your feet smell after a day or two?


Oh wait, clocks
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Bidford-on-Avon, England
1,202 posts, read 382,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
How is that ridiculous, in December, solar noon in Seattle averages around 11:50am or later, on December 21st, solar noon in Seattle is at 12:06pm. Did you know that solar noon varies throughout the year by about a range of 30 mins?
It is ridiculous because the solar noon should never be before midday. I know I am biased towards afternoon light, but so are our body clocks.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Bidford-on-Avon, England
1,202 posts, read 382,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The UK changed the clocks twice, once during the Second World War to help munitions factories maximise productivity and allow people to get home safely before the blackout and between 1968 and 1971 the Government carried out the same experiment but was forced to end it after complaints in Scotland and northern England.

When Do Clocks Go Back In October 2017?

The net result of any change could be different time zones for England and Scotland, as the Scottish are generally opposed to such a change.
Opposition to the Change
Some people are still cautious about accepting SDST. In the past, a move to SDST has been opposed by those industries whose workers rise early and utilise morning light, for example some farmers, those who collect and deliver milk, the building industry and postal workers. There is now increasing evidence that these objections are less relevant. For example, postal workers deliver mail later in the day than when the 1968/71 experiment took place. Modern farming methods have also reduced the impact on farmers, with many now neutral or positive about this proposed change. In Scotland, the National Farmers' Union position is no longer opposed to the change, as it was in the past.

In Scotland, there has been opposition to the change. A 2005 MORI poll suggested that only 40% of Scots were in favour of the change, with the main points raised being:

'This is something which would benefit the English, not the Scottish.'
This is not true: in all the major dimensions measurable road safety, environmental benefit and fuel cost, tourism, health and wellbeing Scotland would benefit disproportionately compared to England and Wales.
'There is nothing that can be done there is only so much available daylight in Scotland.'
This is not true: because Scotland has less available daylight in winter, it is more important for Scotland to manage it carefully, because it is a more precious resource. This fine-tuning is required to get the most benefit out of the available daylight north of the border.
'It would make sense for England to go one hour ahead and Scotland to remain where it is.'
This is not true: apart from the devolution and consistency issues, this is a north-south issue, unaffected by time zones. If it were a significant east-west issue, there might be benefits in different countries in the UK going to different time-zones.
'More children will die because of the darker mornings.'
This is not true: the effect of SDST is to save children's lives, even more so in Scotland than in England and Wales, because Scotland has longer, darker winter evenings, which is where the principal casualties occur.
Scottish opposition arose from the 1968/71 experiment because certain media reported an increase in child casualties in the morning, omitting to mention that the evening reduction had more than compensated for this increase. As a result, there is a widely-held belief that this would be bad for Scotland, when in fact, the opposite is true.

However, opinions in Scotland seem to be changing.

Summary

The most recent attempt to change Britain's legislation about lighter evenings was Rebecca Harris MP's Private Members' Bill, "Daylight Savings Bill", which would have required the Government to conduct a cross-departmental analysis of the potential costs and benefits of advancing time by one hour for all, or part of, the year. If the analysis finds that this would benefit the UK, a trial would be conducted and evaluated to finally determine the full effects. Unfortunately, despite having significant support in Parliament and getting much further through the parliamentary process than any other Private Members' Bill on this topic, the Bill was talked out by a small number of MPs at its
Third Reading on 20 January 2012.

The overwhelming evidence is that this would be a positive change for the UK, particularly those living further north. No objective evidence has ever been commissioned which might show that this change would bring any disadvantage to any group.

Since the 1968/71 experiment, it is estimated that more than 5,000 people have died and more than 30,000 received serious injuries in the UK on the roads, for no reasons other than entrenched prejudice and lack of political will.

It seems very unlikely that if a change to SDST were to take place, a campaign headed by many national organisations would be initiated to return things to the current system.

RoSPA recommends that a change to lighter evenings should be introduced on a trial basis for 2 3 years (similar to experiment conducted during 1968/71). The decision about continuing permanently would then be based on the consequent effects on road casualties. This would provide objective, up-to-date evidence about the effects of SDST and also enable the public and the various industry and business sectors that would be affected to experience the change for themselves.
https://www.rospa.com/campaigns-fund...hter-evenings/
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: The Windy City
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I wish we'd stay in daylight savings time all the time. Can't stand this dark at 4:30pm stuff.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsonj417 View Post
It is ridiculous because the solar noon should never be before midday. I know I am biased towards afternoon light, but so are our body clocks.
Where did you pull that "fact", out of nowhere?

Conversely, I find it more difficult to get out of bed when it's still dark
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,669 posts, read 6,728,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
I wish we'd stay in daylight savings time all the time. Can't stand this dark at 4:30pm stuff.
So you'd rather have it still be dark at 8:30 in the morning?
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Denver
1,303 posts, read 430,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
So you'd rather have it still be dark at 8:30 in the morning?
Absolutely. The majority of people are either at work or in school at 8:30 in the morning where light doesn't matter. After work/school at 4-6PM is when most people have time to be outdoors. If it is dark, most people won't go out.
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