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Old 11-14-2017, 01:58 PM
 
524 posts, read 169,568 times
Reputation: 227

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsfan53 View Post
for something that you claim is a "fact" you seem to have an awful lot of opinion and very little actual fact.
The ironic thing about 'democrats' of the 20th and 21st centuries is that they have practically ruined democracy.

People voting for bigger and bigger government policies which are the equivalent of insurance rackets and things like unions have been bad for the economy over the long term. Voting for ideas under the premise that it is supposed to actually be 'good' for them is hardly a productive form of democracy.

Democrats are actually anti-democracy and anti-progress. Mob rule is plutocracy disguised as democracy and democrats are the enablers of plutocracy because they think that people are incabable of managing themselves apparently.

This economy is a plutocracy. If the democrat ideology worked then plutocracy would not be increasing as it is, but it does not.

All of the major cities are basically plutocracies economically or have been. It is no coincidence that these same cities all vote democrat historically for many years.

Look where democrat-voting enabled plutocracy got Detroit. The 20th century should have been a century of real progress on individual and community levels for most people. I would gather that most people and families who regressed during that time voted for democrats because they thought they would have an easier life and not have to be as economically and financially diligent. The ones who suffered because of it were not just their own families because of their collectively selfish attitudes. The same thing is still going on.

Last edited by Objective Detective; 11-14-2017 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:18 PM
 
8,088 posts, read 4,427,185 times
Reputation: 3074
Yeah, I don't get the scare tactics. The quote I post below may not agree with your percentage, but still a small number and close enough to support what you are saying. Whether it is 4% or 10%, is not a big deal. No bill is going to satisfy everyone, unless it is their party doing the figuring.

Talking about $100 to $500 in two years is a rounding error type number. Is this the best bill? No. Is the sky falling, hardly. Scare tactics.

From the OP's link in post #1.
Quote:
That group, about 10 percent of all U.S. taxpayers, would face tax increases of $100 to $500 in 2019.
Well worn, tried and true adage: figures lie and liars figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Raise taxes on 4% of population? Lower taxes on 96%? Win....
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:06 PM
 
3,988 posts, read 1,683,726 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Objective Detective View Post
The ironic thing about 'democrats' of the 20th and 21st centuries is that they have practically ruined democracy.

People voting for bigger and bigger government policies which are the equivalent of insurance rackets and things like unions have been bad for the economy over the long term. Voting for ideas under the premise that it is supposed to actually be 'good' for them is hardly a productive form of democracy.

Democrats are actually anti-democracy and anti-progress. Mob rule is plutocracy disguised as democracy and democrats are the enablers of plutocracy because they think that people are incabable of managing themselves apparently.

This economy is a plutocracy. If the democrat ideology worked then plutocracy would not be increasing as it is, but it does not.

All of the major cities are basically plutocracies economically or have been. It is no coincidence that these same cities all vote democrat historically for many years.

Look where democrat-voting enabled plutocracy got Detroit. The 20th century should have been a century of real progress on individual and community levels for most people. I would gather that most people and families who regressed during that time voted for democrats because they thought they would have an easier life and not have to be as economically and financially diligent. The ones who suffered because of it were not just their own families because of their collectively selfish attitudes. The same thing is still going on.
yet again, lots of opinion and 0 fact....pls continue
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:24 PM
 
4,173 posts, read 2,941,881 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Liberals should be for it. Liberals never saw a tax they didn’t like.
Hey, if you have nothing intelligent to add to a discussion, insult someone with random BS!

It works for Trump!

Address the trillions that will go to debt with these cuts.

Address the fact that corporations and the wealthy will get huge cuts and the middle class is going to see increases and "cuts" that are "temporary".

Address the fact that the GOP and Trump are eliminating the Estate tax that only helps wealthy people.

Otherwise, you got nothing! Try and stay on topic, which is the current GOP tax initiative.

If this were an actual tax cut for the middle class and at least equal to the one being given to the wealthy, I would support it. If they cut spending to pay for the cuts I would support it. How you defend having your pocket picked is both humorous and inane.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:27 PM
 
4,173 posts, read 2,941,881 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsfan53 View Post
yet again, lots of opinion and 0 fact....pls continue
Not just unsubstantiated opinion, but laughable comments about "progress" from the group that turns back the clock at every opportunity, while lamenting how everything was better in decades past. It is like they allow internet access in the psych ward!
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,131 posts, read 13,643,867 times
Reputation: 22168
It keeps getting worse.

“Without enacting subsequent legislation to either offset that deficit increase, waive the recordation of the bill’s impact on the scorecard, or otherwise mitigate or eliminate the requirements of the [pay-go] law, OMB would be required to issue a sequestration order within 15 days of the end of the session of Congress to reduce spending in fiscal year 2018 by the resultant total of $136 billion,” CBO wrote on Tuesday. Medicare can only be cut by a maximum of 4 percent through the pay-go rules, however, which amounts to $25 billion in cuts.

The law also specifies restrictions for other mandatory spending accounts, such as Social Security and means-tested entitlements, which limits how much OMB can pull back spending. Of the remaining $111 billion, CBO estimated that the OMB would only be able to cut $85 billion to 90 billion. But that also means that the nonexempted accounts would be virtually wiped out. Those include agricultural subsidies, some health funds linked to the Affordable Care Act, Customs and Border Patrol operations and funds in the Student Loan Administration, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a budgetary watchdog group."


GOP tax bill could spur $25 billion in Medicare cuts: CBO | TheHill

I have no idea how anyone can defend this bill, the article I linked doesn't even mention the budget bill which is designed to make up for some of the tax giveaways by cutting medicaid by 1.3 trillion and medicare by 473 billion over 10 years. Maybe the folks who continue to support this bill don't plan on getting old..or poor
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,131 posts, read 13,643,867 times
Reputation: 22168
And if you think all these CEO's are going to invest all these tax savings in the economy then you might want to watch what happened when Gary Cohn asked a room packed with CEO's of major companies if they plan to increase their company's capital investments if the GOP's tax bill passes. FIVE raised their hand.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/15/gary...-crickets.html

This tax plan is designed for the Mercer's the Koch's and Donald Trump, not for the rest of us
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Just the other day they were crying it was gonna blow up the deficit.. now its gonna raise taxes...

they cant keep their lies straight 1 day to another..
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. You can cut taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals and raise taxes on the middle class and still have a budget deficit so long as the revenue increases from the tax hikes do not offset the losses from the tax cuts. You're assuming the two will wash out.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:18 AM
 
Location: NYntarctica
11,438 posts, read 6,421,611 times
Reputation: 4340
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Just the other day they were crying it was gonna blow up the deficit.. now its gonna raise taxes...
You're a big boy, use you brain a lil bit. You can figure it out
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:46 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 590,903 times
Reputation: 805
The bottom line is that your average American household will pay less taxes under the GOP plan. I doubt that 13.8 million will see a tax increase, but even if they do, this plan is still an improvement over the current code.
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