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Old 11-15-2017, 07:17 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,253 posts, read 11,657,366 times
Reputation: 13296

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
People are never going to understand that the role of police is to investigate a crime that has already been committed, not to prevent all crimes from happening in the first place. When seconds matter, the police will be there in minutes.

And that's not LEO's fault. We just simply cannot have an armed LEO guard for every US citizen/legal immigrant 24/7.

Bingo!

Interestingly, in the case at issue here, the sheriffs had a damn good reason to roll on this guys house and cuff n stuff him. He had violated quite a few laws and had shown himself to be more than a potential threat to public safety. Again, he was "on the radar.' Well, when radar operators report a bandit, it is intercepted and shot down.


SOP.
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:25 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,834 posts, read 6,650,855 times
Reputation: 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Huh? Ummm...Ok then. That quoted post was pretty wild. You actually envision that aye? Well, the police, who are supposed to be our never fail defenders, failed miserably (yet again) to preempt a nut case. They had all the authority and opportunity they needed to collar this creep.


If we are to give up the right to arms, ceding that only to the police and military, the police need to show they can actually do something about the predators. So far, no joy. I haven't seen anyone advocating turning schools into forward fire bases and transporting the kids in armored troop transports.


If we can get past all this strident silliness we might get something figured out. Unfortunately every body wants to stand on their superior moral positions and yell at each other. Meanwhile the real problems slink away. Yet again...
A bit 'tongue in cheek' yes but it was a response to a particular poster who genuinely seems to think that this kind of thing would be a good idea - there is a post on here about 'bullet proof' backpacks for kids I notice! Seriously you guys have to do something about this, its ridiculous and not really much of a laughing matter. This 2nd amendment thing (whatever the hell that means anyway) seems to be 'brainwashed' into 'some' of you 'over there', for gods sake this (2nd amendment) thing does NOT make you 'more free' but it does KILL, I know its not easily solved but you have to at least 'try' to do something about the guns flooding your streets and killing your people, its FAR too tragic to do nothing.
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:42 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,208,622 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCbaxter View Post
Yea but my point is you taking a couple paintball centered active shooter drills dos not prepare you for the real deal. The sounds, the smells. Ever seen a cavitation wound caused by a real 223 round? Ever seen it on a child? So see that then smell the cordite and blood. Hear the screams and the shots going off in an open area and you don’t know where they’re coming from. Are those shooter rounds or responding rounds from your guys!

Now make the right decision as a shadow passes in front of you and turns. Once you make the decision, hit the target.
Beings I've shot wild hogs with 223/556 yes I do know what the wound looks like. On a child?-no.

What I have seen that's far more gruesome is what a Ford excursion at an estimated 80mph looks like when piloted by a repeat DWI offender misses a turn and collides with a friend's VW GTI with 4 friends inside and what their bodies look like afterwards.

Similar to loons having firearms, there are flaws within the system for drunks.

Was I calling for a ban on alcohol sales or vehicle restrictions following that? No. Why punish the populace for 1 scumbags actions? What I did call for, is stricter punishments for DWI laws. Similar to gun control, there are laws that punish and push for nanny type oversight. For example holding bar tenders or bar owners, legally responsible for a drunk driver. That law wouldn't have prevented that incident from occurring. The drunk got boozed up at his house and went to go get more.

Would holding a place of business that sells beer or liquor liable have stopped it? That's placing the clerk and the owner responsible for someone else's actions. No.
Should alcohol sellers be mandated to perform field sobriety tests before sales?
That's taking police officers off of the street to go sit in every store across NY to perform a field sobriety test on all alcohol sales.
Should auto manufacturers place breathalyzer interfaces in every vehicle sold? Honestly? No. Why? Raising the price of a vehicle, being a tech for 10 years, I've seen most of what is capable by someone hell bent on defeating mandatory required items. Seat belts especially. There are people who figure out ways to stop the alarm from sounding so they can drive without a seatbelt, whether cutting a buckle from a junk vehicle, to finding a wiring diagram and inserting resistors on a circuit. That and manufacturers have a tendency to have failures with software and hardware.

My approach to DWI is the same with firearms.

Remove the incentive. Enact harsher mandatory sentences with longer terms. Hold the violator responsible. Seizure of assets and money, liquidate assets to cover medical, mental health, and funeral bills for the victims and their loved ones.
Start holding law enforcement to the same standards as fellow people. If it's reported someone is abusive, violent, or deranged, failure to report to NICS holding the reporting authority responsible for negligence.



Twice now, the laws that are developed to prevent evil scumbags from carrying out acts of evil have failed. I would say 3 times however nothing has been released further on the Vegas scumbag, other than the girlfriend had reported night terrors...

Like I said before. I'm all for the prevention of these incidents occurring but not at the costs of freedom.
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:45 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,834 posts, read 6,650,855 times
Reputation: 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Beings I've shot wild hogs with 223/556 yes I do know what the wound looks like. On a child?-no.

What I have seen that's far more gruesome is what a Ford excursion at an estimated 80mph looks like when piloted by a repeat DWI offender misses a turn and collides with a friend's VW GTI with 4 friends inside and what their bodies look like afterwards.

Similar to loons having firearms, there are flaws within the system for drunks.

Was I calling for a ban on alcohol sales or vehicle restrictions following that? No. Why punish the populace for 1 scumbags actions? What I did call for, is stricter punishments for DWI laws. Similar to gun control, there are laws that punish and push for nanny type oversight. For example holding bar tenders or bar owners, legally responsible for a drunk driver. That law wouldn't have prevented that incident from occurring. The drunk got boozed up at his house and went to go get more.

Would holding a place of business that sells beer or liquor liable have stopped it? That's placing the clerk and the owner responsible for someone else's actions. No.
Should alcohol sellers be mandated to perform field sobriety tests before sales?
That's taking police officers off of the street to go sit in every store across NY to perform a field sobriety test on all alcohol sales.
Should auto manufacturers place breathalyzer interfaces in every vehicle sold? Honestly? No. Why? Raising the price of a vehicle, being a tech for 10 years, I've seen most of what is capable by someone hell bent on defeating mandatory required items. Seat belts especially. There are people who figure out ways to stop the alarm from sounding so they can drive without a seatbelt, whether cutting a buckle from a junk vehicle, to finding a wiring diagram and inserting resistors on a circuit. That and manufacturers have a tendency to have failures with software and hardware.

My approach to DWI is the same with firearms.

Remove the incentive. Enact harsher mandatory sentences with longer terms. Hold the violator responsible. Seizure of assets and money, liquidate assets to cover medical, mental health, and funeral bills for the victims and their loved ones.
Start holding law enforcement to the same standards as fellow people. If it's reported someone is abusive, violent, or deranged, failure to report to NICS holding the reporting authority responsible for negligence.



Twice now, the laws that are developed to prevent evil scumbags from carrying out acts of evil have failed. I would say 3 times however nothing has been released further on the Vegas scumbag, other than the girlfriend had reported night terrors...

Like I said before. I'm all for the prevention of these incidents occurring but not at the costs of freedom.
What do you mean exactly by 'not at the cost of freedom'? I fail to see why you are dumb enough to believe that bulletproof backpacks would make elementary school kids more 'free'?
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:00 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,208,622 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
What do you mean exactly by 'not at the cost of freedom'? I fail to see why you are dumb enough to believe that bulletproof backpacks would make elementary school kids more 'free'?
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Where did I advocate for bullet proof backpacks
I did advocate earlier for armed teachers to defend their students and the removal of gun free zones. Beings it's a federal crime to be near a school with a firearm...

You can not be within 1,000 feet of a school with a firearm.

Quote:
The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is an act of the U.S. Congress signed into law by President George H.W. Bush that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25)
Interestingly, people of my parents generation used to bring guns to school with them and stored them in their personal vehicles so they could go hunting after school.

Somewhere I have a newspaper article from the 60s or 70s? Shows a teacher and student sitting out front of a school, armed at that with a rifle and shotgun, after a threat was called in. That threat wasn't carried out surprisingly.

Somehow through the years people started believing in trading liberty for security instead of exercising their rights to keep and bear arms. Whether out of feeble fear, or out of convenience. Not a fan of waiting minutes when seconds matter.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:03 AM
 
Location: NC
7,038 posts, read 4,976,596 times
Reputation: 7810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
School? California? It can't possibly be. The report MUST be wrong. How did all those gun laws and gun free zones NOT stop this?
Actually, following lockdown protocol stopped it, and saved a lot more lives than some redneck vigalante with a gun in Texas did at the Church Shooting.

I think the cry from the gun-lubbers was "it would have been much worse". Well, now we see another, apparently more effective way to stop this nonsense.

How come you're not as excited that kids lives were saved? Is it because it didn't promote more guns?
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:06 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,834 posts, read 6,650,855 times
Reputation: 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Where did I advocate for bullet proof backpacks
I did advocate earlier for armed teachers to defend their students and the removal of gun free zones. Beings it's a federal crime to be near a school with a firearm...

You can not be within 1,000 feet of a school with a firearm.



Interestingly, people of my parents generation used to bring guns to school with them and stored them in their personal vehicles so they could go hunting after school.

Somewhere I have a newspaper article from the 60s or 70s? Shows a teacher and student sitting out front of a school, armed at that with a rifle and shotgun, after a threat was called in. That threat wasn't carried out surprisingly.

Somehow through the years people started believing in trading liberty for security instead of exercising their rights to keep and bear arms. Whether out of feeble fear, or out of convenience. Not a fan of waiting minutes when seconds matter.
People in 'other' countries can have guns though can't they? I still don't see why you believe the 2nd Amendment (whatever the hell that is anyway) makes you 'more free'? If anything it sounds like it 'hinders' the population rather than making it 'more free'? No go area's, bullet proof backpacks, arming yourself to go to school! Doesn't sound very 'free' to me.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:06 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,208,622 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
Actually, following lockdown protocol stopped it, and saved a lot more lives than some redneck vigalante with a gun in Texas did at the Church Shooting.

I think the cry from the gun-lubbers was "it would have been much worse". Well, now we see another, apparently more effective way to stop this nonsense.

How come you're not as excited that kids lives were saved? Is it because it didn't promote more guns?
Redneck vigilante didn't keep magazines loaded or the rifle handy. He was what you call a responsible gun owner...
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: NC
7,038 posts, read 4,976,596 times
Reputation: 7810
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
People are never going to understand that the role of police is to investigate a crime that has already been committed, not to prevent all crimes from happening in the first place. When seconds matter, the police will be there in minutes.

And that's not LEO's fault. We just simply cannot have an armed LEO guard for every US citizen/legal immigrant 24/7.

Bingo!
You say it's not their fault, but it seems you hate cops and are calling them ineffective. (I don't really think you were saying that, but it's the narrative we'd get if a "librul" made that comment. )

You are right, it's not their job to stop ALL crimes, but they play an important role. In this case, following the lockdown protocol saved more lives than having untrained citizens running around shooting the perps.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:22 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,208,622 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
People in 'other' countries can have guns though can't they? I still don't see why you believe the 2nd Amendment (whatever the hell that is anyway) makes you 'more free'? If anything it sounds like it 'hinders' the population rather than making it 'more free'? No go area's, bullet proof backpacks, arming yourself to go to school! Doesn't sound very 'free' to me.
I take it you aren't familiar with our Constitution or laws,

It makes us more free, because it affords individuals the right to keep and bear arms, to defend life property and from tyranny.

What hinders the population, is the erosion of that right to become reliant on someone with granted authority access to tools of defense.

Change the implement from firearm to fire extinguisher. I have 1 in my kitchen, 1 in my garage, and 1 in the hallway near the dryer. I was a volunteer firefighter. I acknowledge a potential risk for fire exists.
I also know seconds matter. Do you think I'm going to run outside of my house after calling 911?

Absolutely not.

I'll place the call once I've engaged the threat as I do not have an axe handy, should the fire spread into the walls. I do have a fire hydrant on the corner of my yard, but no hose

Same logic applies with firearms.

My state has a stand your ground no duty to retreat. This law states
Quote:
A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
Meaning if you are in my state, and someone wants to do you and/or your loved ones harm, I can act to protect you and your loved ones. Again. Seconds matter. The authorities are minutes away.

It's very simple logic really once you remove the emotional aspect from it and see it for what it is.
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