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Old 11-15-2017, 09:30 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,809 posts, read 6,629,479 times
Reputation: 5315

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Well then that's reasonable, that is until one grasps the fact that the majority of shootings occur in places with the toughest gun laws, so there does not seem to be a correlation between tough gun laws and less crime. Do you know why that is, it is simple, Criminals do not obey the law. Consider yourself better informed now.
Its funny but the USA isn't the only country with 'criminals' or 'gangs' or mentally unstable individuals, however countries with tougher gun laws have FAR less people shot to death every year, not a bit less, not quite a bit less, not even a lot less but Massively, hugely less, until that statistic changes arguing that more guns = less people shot is like trying to argue that black is in fact white. Sitting there pretending there isn't a MASSIVE problem is ridiculous.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:34 AM
 
15,366 posts, read 5,708,687 times
Reputation: 11512
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Countries with tougher gun laws have FAR less people shot to death every year, not a bit less, not quite a bit less, not even a lot less but Massively, hugely less, until that statistic changes arguing that more guns = less people shot is like trying to argue that black is in fact white. Sitting there pretending there isn't a MASSIVE problem is ridiculous.
This is what gun lovers do. You cannot reason with them using facts and logic. They are too, too enamored of their guns to be able to hear you. This is the problem that all of we sane Americans are faced with every day. And the NRA buys and owns our politicians to make sure nothing can ever change.

Meanwhile, as the death toll rises by the day, the gun lovers pretend we're all safer. It's insane.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:36 AM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
Oh, please. How can we be even more at mercy than we are now?
By removing our ability to defend ourselves.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:39 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,809 posts, read 6,629,479 times
Reputation: 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
This is what gun lovers do. You cannot reason with them using facts and logic. They are too, too enamored of their guns to be able to hear you. This is the problem that all of we sane Americans are faced with every day. And the NRA buys and owns our politicians to make sure nothing can ever change.

Meanwhile, as the death toll rises by the day, the gun lovers pretend we're all safer. It's insane.
I feel your frustration, I can see its a tough problem for you guys, but surely even 'trying' to do something has got to be better than doing nothing. I hope you guys can get on top of this soon, even if only a touch, I hate to see these people getting gunned down while going about their business.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:41 AM
 
15,366 posts, read 5,708,687 times
Reputation: 11512
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
By removing our ability to defend ourselves.
It's the people WITH guns that we need to be protected from.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:51 AM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
I'm not subscribed to the victim mentality nor compelled by fear. That's an individuals choice to be. I am at no one's mercy, I refuse to relinquish my rights, I refuse to succumb to fear, I refuse to allow evil scumbags the ability to do harm.

Take for example a legitimate threat to my life and well being, retiree snowbirds half blind, half deaf, slower reaction time behind the wheel and possibly stroking out behind the wheel.

There are no helmet laws in my state. I ride my Harley without a helmet. Oakley wrap arounds, tee shirt, shorts, and sneakers. On the road I am at the mercy of others "not seeing me" but those Vance and Hines short shots they'll damn sure hear me Does that mean I weave around cars left and right? Split lanes? Become a nuisance on the road to potentially cause an accident? Absolutely not.
I'm a rider, as well, even though I'm a 5'8" 130 lb female. I have 3 bikes. Two Harleys (stage 4 plus Fat Boy Lo, custom tuned to have a flat torque curve but still max out at over 100 hp, and a CVO Fat Bob) and an MV Agusta (Italian) naked superbike. The two states I've lived in since having those bikes are helmet law states, IL and NC. So I always wear a helmet. Why? I'm a law-abiding rider.

Quote:
I acknowledge the risk at hand, am I compelled by fear? Absolutely not.
Same with firearms. I'm not compelled by fear. Nor do I fear an armed populace.

Just like being in possession of a motorcycle and following state and federal laws, I do not present myself as a meance/nuisance. There are laws posted and I abide by them.

Do I fear being gunned down? Nope. Do I fear being run over by a 60-80 something year old in a Cadillac? Nope.

Does that make me a nut for having a logical rather than emotional approach to how to live my life?
Nope. To all of the above. Though I did get rear-ended by an illegal alien (Filipino) on one of my bikes, the Fat Boy Lo. Bent the frame, which had to be replaced, and so the bike had to be rebuilt. Perfect time to add in performance upgrades, including variable disc SuperTrapp pipes.

Quote:
I merely suggest practicing your 2nd Amendment rights, as much as you practice your 1st Amendment rights to disagree with me. I Acknowledge there may or may not be a risk and plan/live accordingly. That's more so on the side of common sense though.

Kind of like fast food. I can only suggest you stay away from the doublechin burgers, extra large fries, and washing it down with a massive diet soda... that crap is poison.
Would I be ringing congress critters and senators to ban McDonald's as heart disease takes 630k+ per year? No. It is the individuals choice to consume that crap.

Make sense?
To me and many others? absolutely!
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:59 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,199,482 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
Oh, please. How can we be even more at mercy than we are now? In not one of these hundreds of mass shootings has anyone with a gun made us less at mercy. Not once. Like I said, it's a load of crap.
Your sides premise, is to push for legislation in vain of tragedy. Because you are compelled by flawed emotional logic.

Put the emotions on the back burner.

Remember. Criminals and tyrants operate outside of the law. Sweeping bans and legislation revolving around emotion, is flawed.

You empower those who seek to carry out evil by removing or limiting the means of defense in exchange for a false sense of security.

What all sides should be working toward is removing the incentive to commit heinous acts of unwarranted evil.

I removed bullies incentive in highschool. I used to really suck at math. I made friends with the "dorks/out casts/nerds" confronted their bullies for them in exchange for their help. I either confronted their bullies on the field or after school, most times with words. Seldom times with physical action.
It was far more effective than running to an adult in the room. Same can work in society I believe. I found a common trend with bullies. They did these vile things to feel better about themselves through harsh words or actions against others.

The schools method was to have "peer mediation". My method. You leave the kid alone. What is wrong with you? You're twice their size FFS! The common trend. Abusive home life. Passing on what they faced at home. Some bullies who were part of the "popular" crowd that had an elitist approach to others from looks, to clothing style, to music selection, only bullied those who were different than them to feel powerful or to simply take their aggression out on others inflicting their pain onto others.
If the bullies didn't heed my warning, and got physical with those I seeked to protect, and I had to engage them physically, they were from a horrible home life with a sense of having nothing to lose. Once the wind was taken from their sails their tough guy facade diminished with a bloody nose fat lip swollen eye. Once they were broken then they were open to listening.
I've had to beat the brakes off 5 or 6 on behalf of others. Why not follow through with peer mediation and having the school handle it? Because the schools policy was to infringe on their education via expulsion. My method sent them with their tail between their legs and apologizing and accepting the person they had tormented. Also surprisingly created friendships. Former bully and their victim either became friends or the bully pretended that kid no longer existed and left them alone. For those who are of the mentality of having nothing to lose, unfortunately that is the only time I believe violence is allowed. Since that is all they understand when they come from an Abusive and broken home.

So, what causes someone to misuse a firearm and slaughter innocent people? Let's address that. Not the firearm. Same way those bullies misused their hands and knocked books out of the hands of defenseless and weak kids, shoving them into walls and lockers, tripping them, pushing them down stairs, relentlessly harassing them for no reason other than they're different.

Sadly, one side wants to focus on removing/restricting the implement.
Which is why I will continue to mention vehicle related deaths. The reason behind it is simple. I want to understand your logic pertaining to banning and restricting and legislation. Every excuse against banning private vehicles tells me that the side who's anti gun is not interested in preserving life. Their motive is simply of pure emotion following tragedy.

I've posted homicide rates, that is what is relevant to these heinous acts. I've posted car accident death rates as a comparrison.
9,616 via firearms
35,092 via vehicles

Yet with 365% higher death rates, there is no call for banning a privelege of private transportation.

Never mind the feeble false equivalence of people who own multiple firearms to that of the Vegas scumbag. Interestingly, when the argument of gun ownership vs violent crime rates decreasing your side likes to argue correlation is not causation.

If you believe the polls that firearm ownership is on the decline and that what... 15% of the population accounts for 80% of firearms owned... 15% of 320 million owning 80% of 300 400 million firearms... then your argument is anyone who owns multiple firearms is another vegas scumbag. That's 48 million vegas scumbags going by the argument those who own multiple firearms are evil and want to commit acts of evil with them. I still say people lie on those polls...

What of "correlation is not causation" now? To falsely equate someone to that scumbag simply because they possess multiple firearms? That's the same basis/logic that as firearm ownership increases, homicide rates decrease according to your side correct? For your side believes that it's a false equivalency of higher gun owner rates, results in lower homicide rates then it must also be false that those who collect or posses multiple firearms for various reasons to them, are unstable and seeking to carry out vile acts against fellow humans.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:00 AM
 
10,138 posts, read 6,265,886 times
Reputation: 5726
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
Talk to the guy right above your post, who lives in the U.K. That sense of security is not false. Yours is, believing that your guns are going to make you safe.


Interesting....Just remember , when seconds count the police are minutes away !
Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest




The Metropolitan Police said gun crime had risen by 42 per cent year on year with 2,544 recorded offences, while knife crime was up almost a quarter with more than 4,000 offences.









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Old 11-15-2017, 10:01 AM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Well then that's reasonable, that is until one grasps the fact that the majority of shootings occur in places with the toughest gun laws, so there does not seem to be a correlation between tough gun laws and less crime. Do you know why that is, it is simple, Criminals do not obey the law. Consider yourself better informed now.
There's even more to it than that...

As gun ownership increased by 50% over the last 20 years, gun homicides have DECREASED by 50%:
Quote:
AND...

Bottom chart: As gun ownership increased by 50% over the last 20 years, nonfatal violent crimes DECREASED by 76%.

Quote:
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:03 AM
 
10,138 posts, read 6,265,886 times
Reputation: 5726
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I'm a rider, as well, even though I'm a 5'8" 130 lb female. I have 3 bikes. Two Harleys (stage 4 plus Fat Boy Lo, custom tuned to have a flat torque curve but still max out at over 100 hp, and a CVO Fat Bob) and an MV Agusta (Italian) naked superbike. The two states I've lived in since having those bikes are helmet law states, IL and NC. So I always wear a helmet. Why? I'm a law-abiding rider.

Nope. To all of the above. Though I did get rear-ended by an illegal alien (Filipino) on one of my bikes, the Fat Boy Lo. Bent the frame, which had to be replaced, and so the bike had to be rebuilt. Perfect time to add in performance upgrades, including variable disc SuperTrapp pipes.

To me and many others? absolutely!

Sorry, the only think I see that you posted was this... What a sweet bike !
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