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Old 11-15-2017, 10:30 AM
 
4,312 posts, read 1,264,045 times
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I think the idea of "left" vs "right" in American politics has become meaningless and confusing.

Originally, as far as I know, "right" meant supporters of the established rulers, and "left" meant the opponents of the established rulers.

It does not mean that anymore.

Now we use "left" to refer to Democrats, liberals and socialists. And "right" refers to Republicans, libertarians, and social traditionalists.

All those things do NOT fit into the "left" and "right" boxes. How is a libertarian a supporter of the established rulers? How is a liberal Democrat an opponent of the established rulers?

Our political categories have evolved way beyond the left-right dichotomy. And they probably never fit even at the beginning.

The major division right now, as I see it, is the general public vs the globalist elite. By the old definition, that would make 99% of us "leftists."

This was especially confusing during the Trump election. Democrats had absolutely no idea that Trump's middle class supporters were angry about the same things that middle class Democrats were angry about.

Many voters chose Trump because he seemed to be an opponent of the globalist elite, the established rulers. In other words, by the old definition, Trump was seen as a leftist.

I think we need to stop naming things incorrectly, and was also should stop trying to squeeze all ideas into one of two parties.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:54 AM
 
4,887 posts, read 1,348,582 times
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2 parties are an inevitable outcome of a winner take all system, coalitions are made to consolidate power not really to represent their respective constituents accurately. Since power is what is required to win, and there is no benefit to being 2nd, 3rd, 4th places in our elections, that means that eventually 2 competing powers will emerge with a loose consensus of mostly unrelated beliefs... because that is the only way they have a chance of winning, and parties that don't win at least some of the time are pushed to irrelevance because they have no real representation. A system that grants proportional representation would allow for smaller, more stratified and diverse groups of beliefs to compete.

I agree BTW that the 2 major party platforms are poor placeholders for what most people actually believe.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: The Land Mass Between NOLA and Mobile, AL
1,796 posts, read 1,355,893 times
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I agree with the points you two are making. The problem is that we have too many people who vote according to one, or maybe two, issues. Not very many people can talk in any substantive way about policies; they rather get caught up in cults of personality.

For those who are interested in learning more about politics and the Constitution, The Federalist Papers is not a bad place to start.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:32 AM
 
Location: San Diego
4,984 posts, read 1,360,512 times
Reputation: 3568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I think the idea of "left" vs "right" in American politics has become meaningless and confusing.

Originally, as far as I know, "right" meant supporters of the established rulers, and "left" meant the opponents of the established rulers.
No wonder you've been confused.
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Old 11-15-2017, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,623 posts, read 11,152,317 times
Reputation: 6104
Quote:
Originally Posted by diva360 View Post
I agree with the points you two are making. The problem is that we have too many people who vote according to one, or maybe two, issues. Not very many people can talk in any substantive way about policies; they rather get caught up in cults of personality.

For those who are interested in learning more about politics and the Constitution, The Federalist Papers is not a bad place to start.
One or two issues is what it should be on the national level imo. The federal government has too much power and the states not nearly enough. We have problems because there are so many issues to vote over.

And as far as 1 issue, anyone who brings all the troops home to protect our borders like the constitution says, gets my vote. it's not even a close call for me. That's a definite.
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:03 PM
 
2,547 posts, read 1,895,821 times
Reputation: 2479
I thought left and right no longer exist now. I guess I am wrong.
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Austin
12,061 posts, read 6,885,577 times
Reputation: 13320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I think the idea of "left" vs "right" in American politics has become meaningless and confusing.

Originally, as far as I know, "right" meant supporters of the established rulers, and "left" meant the opponents of the established rulers.

It does not mean that anymore.

Now we use "left" to refer to Democrats, liberals and socialists. And "right" refers to Republicans, libertarians, and social traditionalists.

All those things do NOT fit into the "left" and "right" boxes. How is a libertarian a supporter of the established rulers? How is a liberal Democrat an opponent of the established rulers?

Our political categories have evolved way beyond the left-right dichotomy. And they probably never fit even at the beginning.

The major division right now, as I see it, is the general public vs the globalist elite. By the old definition, that would make 99% of us "leftists."

This was especially confusing during the Trump election. Democrats had absolutely no idea that Trump's middle class supporters were angry about the same things that middle class Democrats were angry about.

Many voters chose Trump because he seemed to be an opponent of the globalist elite, the established rulers. In other words, by the old definition, Trump was seen as a leftist.

I think we need to stop naming things incorrectly, and was also should stop trying to squeeze all ideas into one of two parties.
Left vs right is more polarized than ever according to the polls.

Left is comprised of oppressed minorities and white guilt liberals. Right is comprised of white supremist morons and Constitution loving americans who don't want men who wear mini skirts and wigs in women's bathrooms.
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:54 PM
 
4,312 posts, read 1,264,045 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
No wonder you've been confused.
[The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution of 1789 when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E...y_of_the_terms


I have not read the rules of the CD forums. Is one of the rules that you have to be snotty and sarcastic? Is there a rule that you must be derisive even when you are obviously wrong and have no idea what you are talking about?

Admittedly, there isn't much politeness on internet forums in general. But CD deserves the prize.
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:01 PM
 
4,312 posts, read 1,264,045 times
Reputation: 3392
And having these 2 over-simplified categories seriously distorts some peoples' thinking. For example, if they are a Democrat they will automatically disagree with everything any Republican says. And vice versa. If a Republican says "water is wet" you can be sure there will be Democrats who strongly disagree, just because a Republican said it. And of course logic goes right out the window when people get like this.
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:03 PM
 
4,312 posts, read 1,264,045 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
One or two issues is what it should be on the national level imo. The federal government has too much power and the states not nearly enough. We have problems because there are so many issues to vote over.

And as far as 1 issue, anyone who brings all the troops home to protect our borders like the constitution says, gets my vote. it's not even a close call for me. That's a definite.
Makes sense to me.
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