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Old 11-16-2017, 06:33 AM
 
69,372 posts, read 55,357,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintergirl80 View Post
Okay I stand corrected, killing an elephant is cruel..
And so is killing cows, and pigs, and chickens, and babies... oooh snap...

 
Old 11-16-2017, 06:58 AM
 
39,203 posts, read 40,587,898 times
Reputation: 16081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I also think it's absurd to compare elephants and cows, in terms of how they can be made into "commodities."
Whether you like it not they are a commodity and that is not going to change. You need to look at this from the perspective of someone that lives there. Poaching the elephant provides you with three benefits. It's one less elephant that can damage your crops, you get some meat and various parts of the animal like the tusks for example can be sold on the black market.

It's easy to sit here and say they shouldn't be doing this when you can jump in your car and go the local grocery store and buy food it with cash or an EBT card. When you are in their shoes the elephants life is irrelevant.

By sanctioning these hunts and putting a huge price on them you can alleviate many of these problems.
 
Old 11-16-2017, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
21,730 posts, read 21,615,188 times
Reputation: 21385
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Nothing in the article mentioned poaching but hunts in Zimbabwe and Zambia, which are used as a conservation tool in those countries. Those hunts, for which the participants pay tens of thousands of dollars are legal and are not poaching.

The US, as well as several states, do the same thing. Bison around Yellowstone and bear hunting in Maryland are two examples. Canada also has the same for bison.
Exactly. Its legal hunts not poaching. The money generated from these hunts helps support the protection of the animals as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintergirl80 View Post
Okay I stand corrected, killing an elephant is cruel.....will edit my post.

Either way, its wrong and the U.S. does some messed up trophy hunts too regarding coyote and cougar. I'm 100% against it. Fish and Wildlife are supposed to PROTECT wild animals not award trophies for hunts or purposefully kill species of wild animals.
Animals are killed everyday. If done properly it is not cruel.
If not for Fish and Wildlife here in the US many of the wild animals would be looking at extinction. Legal, managed hunts help control populations. Left un-managed we see a cycle of overpopulation, increased disease, starvation and mass die offs of herding animals. Managed hunts keep populations under control, keep populations healthy and generate the revenue to protect the species.

What is a threat to populations is urban sprawl. We keep encroaching on their natural habitats reducing their available home range and food sources so in order for them to survive we must put aside land but the land become unsustainable as the populations increase and there is no where for the populations to expand so we much cull the populations to preserve their survival. Do you have equal outrage when a new super mall goes up, new office buildings, apartment complexes, new sub divisions then new roads to accommodate them taking hundreds of thousands of acres of habitat?

Allowing hunters to keep trophies from a legal hunt is not going to impact the populations or illegal poaching going on in those countries. In fact the revenue generated from the legal hunts might just possibly provide the money to fight the illegal poaching.
 
Old 11-16-2017, 07:05 AM
 
Location: USA
16,859 posts, read 8,665,100 times
Reputation: 12714
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Whether you like it not they are a commodity and that is not going to change. You need to look at this from the perspective of someone that lives there. Poaching the elephant provides you with three benefits. It's one less elephant that can damage your crops, you get some meat and various parts of the animal like the tusks for example can be sold on the black market.

It's easy to sit here and say they shouldn't be doing this when you can jump in your car and go the local grocery store and buy food it with cash or an EBT card. When you are in their shoes the elephants life is irrelevant.

By sanctioning these hunts and putting a huge price on them you can alleviate many of these problems.
Thank you for some pragmatic logic to balance all the totally emotional, fact less folks here. If the locals can have some benefits from these LEGAL, GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED, and REGULATED hunts, then poaching will drop down in need. These people are often starving, and just trying to stay alive.
 
Old 11-16-2017, 07:06 AM
 
2,143 posts, read 1,255,731 times
Reputation: 2464
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
Is there anything Trumpers can say to defend him on this one? Other than his kids love to shoot and kill animals for sport, so he wants to make it okay for them to bring their trophies home? How are Trump supporters not embarrassed?!
Seems like Trump loves controversy. He goes the opposite of the normal person. His sons are big game hunters, but he is also in the NRA's pocket. Also, Putin seems to be a big game hunter. (He caught Trump, just kidding.)

Will be a joy when Trump is out of office. Maybe, I will be able to relax again. How many years have activists been fighting against the removal of the ivory tusks from elephants? As long as I can remember. How Trump can look in the mirror every day and see a man who should be honest and fight for everyone, not just his personal gain and interests, is beyond comprehension.
 
Old 11-16-2017, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
21,730 posts, read 21,615,188 times
Reputation: 21385
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
The man is beyond being an ass, he is seriously demented and cruel. How much more is he going to screw up before they get him out of there ?
Allowing hunters to bring their LEGAL kill back into the US is cruel. How so? They are paying to go on a legal hunting trip where it is legal to kill the animal. They pay lots of money to do so which helps to manage and protect the animal species. Nothing illegal or cruel about the hunts so why is it demented and cruel to allow these hunters to bring their trophies home?

It is no different than the hunting preserves we have here in the US. People pay to go on a hunt and try to kill, say an elk. Person kills said elk. Should they just be forced by law to leave the dead animal lay or is it ok to actually process the meat, mount the head or keep the antlers and hide?

What is the difference?
Granted I am no fan of these "preserves" and canned hunts. There are a couple of these places where I live and I shake my head at these goobers who pay to kill an animal that is basically tame and an easy kill. And while the individual animals are killed the overall populations and species are continuing to thrive because of it. In my fathers day before FWS and managed hunts, where I live white tail deer were scarce. Today I nearly hit one with my car everyday and turkey as well, in addition buffalo and elk (granted in confined areas) are all over the place where none existed before. Its legal, its a thing.

Is that Trumps fault too?
 
Old 11-16-2017, 07:17 AM
 
15,723 posts, read 9,606,865 times
Reputation: 6988
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...poaching-trade

Clinton’s little-known crusade to save Africa’s elephants


Look who had a huge goal of protecting the insane poaching of Elephants leading to their near extinction. It's blatantly obvious Trump did this as a vindictive move against Clinton and Obama, while allowing his sociopath children the ability to bring home trophies.

No Elephants are being saved by this move. Poaching has led to their endangered status. 110,000 elephants have been slaughtered in the past decade.

It's becoming really hard not to truly despise the human race.
 
Old 11-16-2017, 07:22 AM
 
51,670 posts, read 41,613,932 times
Reputation: 32271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I understand the problems with poaching.

I also think it's absurd to compare elephants and cows, in terms of how they can be made into "commodities."
One "commodity" elephants are being turned into I think we can all support is photo safaris and tourism.

Bottom line is that saving animals is sexy but it's saving the actual habitat that is critical.
 
Old 11-16-2017, 07:22 AM
 
6,440 posts, read 2,740,855 times
Reputation: 7781
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Whether you like it not they are a commodity and that is not going to change. You need to look at this from the perspective of someone that lives there. Poaching the elephant provides you with three benefits. It's one less elephant that can damage your crops, you get some meat and various parts of the animal like the tusks for example can be sold on the black market.

It's easy to sit here and say they shouldn't be doing this when you can jump in your car and go the local grocery store and buy food it with cash or an EBT card. When you are in their shoes the elephants life is irrelevant.

By sanctioning these hunts and putting a huge price on them you can alleviate many of these problems.
Brilliant! To save endangered species we must kill them. True Trumpian logic.
 
Old 11-16-2017, 07:32 AM
 
17,091 posts, read 10,058,097 times
Reputation: 28533
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
Brilliant! To save endangered species we must kill them. True Trumpian logic.
I don't think it's fair to label all Trump supporters as pro hunters like in these types of situations.

I posted a link which refutes the tired argument that organized hunts benefit the locals and the elephants. It does neither, certainly nowhere near the degrees the rabid pro hunting crowd will have you believe.

In fact organized hunts are worse because the only ones that benefit are the foreign organizers and the corrupt African politicians
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