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Old 11-16-2017, 11:54 AM
 
10,063 posts, read 6,205,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Many cannot, but some can.

Simply producing "me too" type of cheap products and competing with cheap labor overseas is suicide. Niche market, high quality products = key

Exactly. And it was what our country was founded on. The world wanted our products...then we sold out. Again, this started before I, and I'm willing to guess, you were born.


There have been generations that have grown up never knowing anything but cheap throw away products. It is impossible to change, just like reversing the effects of globalization.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:02 PM
 
77,656 posts, read 33,088,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Exactly. And it was what our country was founded on. The world wanted our products...then we sold out. Again, this started before I, and I'm willing to guess, you were born.


There have been generations that have grown up never knowing anything but cheap throw away products. It is impossible to change, just like reversing the effects of globalization.
There is nothing wrong with filing a market. It's why Cadillac isn't the only automobile manufacturer.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:02 PM
 
5,721 posts, read 4,590,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Exactly. And it was what our country was founded on. The world wanted our products...then we sold out. Again, this started before I, and I'm willing to guess, you were born.


There have been generations that have grown up never knowing anything but cheap throw away products. It is impossible to change, just like reversing the effects of globalization.
The U.S. economy got a huge boost after WWII. The U.S. was left completely unscathed whereas other countries had cities that were completely destroyed. In the 1800's things were different as well.

It's a different world now in regards to production. It's more competitive. If the U.S. wants the world to want our products, than we need to produce what people want and what people are willing to pay for. A Toyota Camry is still more reliable than a Ford Focus, that's the crux of the matter.

On top of all that, we still can't produce toys for example cheaper than China can. Because their workers will work for much less than American workers.

China is already looking into production in Africa because African workers will now work for less than Chinese workers.

So China is going to end up having the same problems the U.S. does pretty soon. Outsourcing.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:28 PM
 
10,063 posts, read 6,205,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76 View Post
The U.S. economy got a huge boost after WWII. The U.S. was left completely unscathed whereas other countries had cities that were completely destroyed. In the 1800's things were different as well.

It's a different world now in regards to production. It's more competitive. If the U.S. wants the world to want our products, than we need to produce what people want and what people are willing to pay for. A Toyota Camry is still more reliable than a Ford Focus, that's the crux of the matter.

On top of all that, we still can't produce toys for example cheaper than China can. Because their workers will work for much less than American workers.

China is already looking into production in Africa because African workers will now work for less than Chinese workers.

So China is going to end up having the same problems the U.S. does pretty soon. Outsourcing.

We were a manufacturing leader long before WWII . To many think that is where we got our "boost" , not so true. We revolutionized the manufacturing industry, with the help of many foreign born immigrants. Not saying that it didn't help though. We also helped Japan become the industry leader that it is now. Do a little reading on W. Edwards Deming.
And yes it is a different world now. We have to complete with those that are willing to live on campus , work 12-14 hours a day for $300 a month. Sounds competitive to me...


You are definitely correct though. All the low cost countries we sent work to, are developing middle classes...gee, I wonder how ? And their labor costs are going up, so now they look to out source. It is a vicious circle, one that only helps the CEO's and politicians.


As far as the reliability comment. I've worked as a design engineer in the automotive industry for the last 29 years. I've worked for both Asian and Detroit three companies, and I don't see much different being done. They are better at some things, we others.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:43 PM
 
6,680 posts, read 6,546,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76 View Post
The U.S. economy got a huge boost after WWII. The U.S. was left completely unscathed whereas other countries had cities that were completely destroyed. In the 1800's things were different as well.

It's a different world now in regards to production. It's more competitive. If the U.S. wants the world to want our products, than we need to produce what people want and what people are willing to pay for. A Toyota Camry is still more reliable than a Ford Focus, that's the crux of the matter.

On top of all that, we still can't produce toys for example cheaper than China can. Because their workers will work for much less than American workers.

China is already looking into production in Africa because African workers will now work for less than Chinese workers.

So China is going to end up having the same problems the U.S. does pretty soon. Outsourcing.
Labor cost is only one thing.
Manufacturers need to purchase parts from different suppliers. China's infrastructures and supply chains are by far the best among low-labor-cost countries.

More importantly, China has a strong government so there are few protests, coups, and other chaotic incidents. Even the climate of China is more suitable for labor work than that of Southeast Asian or African countries. In India 110 F temperature with power shortage is common.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:00 PM
 
10,063 posts, read 6,205,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Labor cost is only one thing.
Manufacturers need to purchase parts from different suppliers. China's infrastructures and supply chains are by far the best among low-labor-cost countries.

More importantly, China has a strong government so there are few protests, coups, and other chaotic incidents. Even the climate of China is more suitable for labor work than that of Southeast Asian or African countries. In India 110 F temperature with power shortage is common.
Among the best here as well. Have you ever seen a new tool and die shop there ? Unbelievable. Everything is housed in one facility , from start to finish. It's like the buildings are a 1/4 mile long.


They started from scratch though. Our facilities here were 40, 50, 100 years old. I've been in some shops that looked like caves...no matter how much light you brought in , the dank greasy walls and floors would just suck it up.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:28 PM
 
3,733 posts, read 3,774,421 times
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Amazing how everyone admits that the US is falling technologically behind China, then in the other thread laughs at all of the grad students in science and engineering who are going to get demolished by the GOP's tax policies that will heavily dissuade any sane American from studying to become an expert in key fields of technology, science and engineering. In fact, I'd laugh my ace of if our best and brightest minds start going to school in China and start helping the Chinese advance their technological capabilities even faster over there because the US has gone reverse when it comes to valuing education and research at a meteorically stupid rate. Looks like the chickens have finally come home to roost for America. That's what happens when you repeatedly start stupid wars that kill millions of people for nearly a century and blow all of your cash to record levels debt by spending it on the military instead of things that actually provide returns.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:30 PM
 
77,656 posts, read 33,088,732 times
Reputation: 15455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Labor cost is only one thing.
Manufacturers need to purchase parts from different suppliers. China's infrastructures and supply chains are by far the best among low-labor-cost countries.

More importantly, China has a strong government so there are few protests, coups, and other chaotic incidents. Even the climate of China is more suitable for labor work than that of Southeast Asian or African countries. In India 110 F temperature with power shortage is common.
In China, when it's time for the crops to be harvested, the employee's pack up and go home.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:32 PM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,092,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
From Steve Bannon's speech at the Gatestone Institute the other day:

He pointed to recent developments in Beijing, specifically a recent three and a half hour speech by Chinese President Xi Jinping at the 19th Party Congress. He noted that, at the same time, a Brown University study found that since 2001 the cost of the global war on terror is $5.6 trillion.
“This is how you see great powers collapse,” he warned.

  1. The rollout of fifth generation mobile technology — known as “5G.”
  2. The expansion of the One Belt One Road Initiative — a transport system to go through central Asia and connect China to the Middle East.
  3. Plan 2025 — 10 industries the Chinese have aimed to dominate by 2025. Bannon described the Chinese as “way ahead.” Bannon said three of those are silicon chips, robotics, and artificial intelligence.
  4. Conversion of all oil transactions into Chinese currency, which he said will end America as a reserve currency and force the U.S. to start paying off the 20 trillion debt.
  5. Financial technology. Bannon said the true piece of leverage with North Korea is the ability to decouple countries from the world’s financial system, sanction companies, and shut banks off from capital markets. He predicted that in 5-10 years that ability is gone
A reasonable analysis, but referring to that as "Winning" and America "Losing" is really missing the big picture.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:34 PM
 
3,733 posts, read 3,774,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Such as?



What technology are we missing out on?
US is VERY far behind on major fields like quantum communication and super computing. China is the king at both if them
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