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Old 11-21-2017, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
4,809 posts, read 1,630,383 times
Reputation: 1056

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Seems as if the benefits extend to everybody. Take roads. No matter how much you hate the idea of public roads, the entire machinery is running on what is here and now, publicly funded roads. My neighbor can sit in his ivory tower and argue that if we just went with private enterprise, that would so very obviously be better - but here he is, benefiting from cashiers who learned numbers in public schools, public roads to carry his necessities and a public fire department that makes sure buildings open to the public have fire exits.
Quote:
"Seems as if the benefits extend to everybody. Take slavery. No matter how much you hate the idea of slavery, the entire agricultural machinery is running on what is here and now, slavery. My neighbor can sit in his ivory tower and argue that if we just made labor voluntary, that would so very obviously be better - but here he is, benefiting from food grown by slaves, clothing made from slave-picked cotton, and a steady supply of other goods."
So they have nothing to be upset about, right? Hypocritical?

And I shouldn't have to state the obvious, but someone always misses the point... I'm not comparing taxes for roads to chattel slavery, I'm comparing both arguments.

Quote:
My neighbor owes. Even if the arrangement isn't 100% to his liking. He can join us in the argument that our tax proceeds should be used better, or more sparingly, or on other things. But if he wants to argue that he's being violated by paying for the benefits he's enjoying, well - he can put up a homestead somewhere out of sight. We collectively gave him a great head start by making the facilities of a first-world country available to him.
I'll give you a real life personal example from back in college, and you can tell me what you think...

I lived with 5 other guys in a house, and we had a big, but old TV in the living room. One day, I got home from class and there was a brand new TV sitting there. My roommate said "Hey, look...they had a sale going on and I had to get it. I figure everyone can just pay me $125 so you can give me a check whenever you have the money."

I told him that I didn't really have $125 to spend on a TV, I was fine with the old one, and I'd rather spend my money on groceries, rent, and save the rest. He apparently told everyone else this, and they all said "we're all using this TV, so you have to pay for it too."

Should they have taken my money by force? Locked me in the basement for not paying? Any deal that could have been made?

What happened was that I first refused to pay and told them "If I use it, I'll pay you to use it, but I'm not paying $125 for something I never agreed to." Eventually I did end up using it, far less than they did, so I gave them $50 at the end of the year, and they accepted that deal.

Last edited by T0103E; 11-21-2017 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,682 posts, read 33,681,492 times
Reputation: 51867
How many of you are married with no kids but pay the same health insurance premium as a family of four? That was always my gripe when I was married.

How about the federal government stop incentivizing people to have more kids than they can afford in the form of tax credits?
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:45 AM
Status: "Crooked Trump accused of rape and nobody cares." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
8,133 posts, read 5,815,796 times
Reputation: 6678
I don't have kids but I don't mind paying school taxes. I'm just thankful I am able to.


That's the way of the world.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:48 AM
 
29,737 posts, read 16,429,981 times
Reputation: 13814
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzy24 View Post
I don't have kids but I don't mind paying school taxes. I'm just thankful I am able to.


That's the way of the world.
Or said another way: "I dont mind being a victim, and neither should you".
You'd make a great rape counselor.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:06 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,166,348 times
Reputation: 1335
This thread rolls on. Still can't find justification for armed thugs of the State stealing from some to benefit others. Why is it again that parents do not have the responsibility to educate their own children? They create the liability, it is their duty to cover the cost.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:18 AM
 
13,658 posts, read 9,317,927 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
This thread rolls on. Still can't find justification for armed thugs of the State stealing from some to benefit others. Why is it again that parents do not have the responsibility to educate their own children? They create the liability, it is their duty to cover the cost.
I agree.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:28 AM
 
32,441 posts, read 16,619,113 times
Reputation: 17453
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
So they have nothing to be upset about, right? Hypocritical?
The slaves didn't enjoy the benefits of slavery, do I need to point this out?

Quote:
What happened was that I first refused to pay and told them "If I use it, I'll pay you to use it, but I'm not paying $125 for something I never agreed to." Eventually I did end up using it, far less than they did, so I gave them $50 at the end of the year, and they accepted that deal.
Thing is, you walked into your roommate situation a fully functioning adult who could contribute. You were fully in your right to be annoyed.

But you don't enter society as a net contributor - unless you popped into existence as a 20-something young human being with all the skills needed to survive in a complex society, like some Libertarians apparently did. And we have about 5 millennia of judeo-christian-confucian-hammurabian-animist moral code telling us that the widows and the fatherless shouldn't be left to fend for themselves.


If you want to have an argument about how our tax funds can be used better or smarter or more sparingly, cool. Welcome to politics. Because damn, there's plenty of room for improvement. But if you just don't want to contribute to living in the complex intermeshed system that is a First-World country, I'm sure you can find places without taxation that will welcome you. It's just that they suck.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:30 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,178 posts, read 32,145,638 times
Reputation: 19724
I still think it's crazy we educate illegals on our dime. During the recession many returned home so that money was absolutely a waste.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:33 AM
 
32,441 posts, read 16,619,113 times
Reputation: 17453
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
This thread rolls on. Still can't find justification for armed thugs of the State stealing from some to benefit others. Why is it again that parents do not have the responsibility to educate their own children? They create the liability, it is their duty to cover the cost.
Well, we tried that. It's just that there are no longer any mills to send the kids off to so they can earn their way.

Reading this, it's no surprise that China is gearing up to kick your American butts.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:37 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,166,348 times
Reputation: 1335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The slaves didn't enjoy the benefits of slavery, do I need to point this out?

Thing is, you walked into your roommate situation a fully functioning adult who could contribute. You were fully in your right to be annoyed.

But you don't enter society as a net contributor - unless you popped into existence as a 20-something young human being with all the skills needed to survive in a complex society, like some Libertarians apparently did. And we have about 5 millennia of judeo-christian-confucian-hammurabian-animist moral code telling us that the widows and the fatherless shouldn't be left to fend for themselves.


If you want to have an argument about how our tax funds can be used better or smarter or more sparingly, cool. Welcome to politics. Because damn, there's plenty of room for improvement. But if you just don't want to contribute to living in the complex intermeshed system that is a First-World country, I'm sure you can find places without taxation that will welcome you. It's just that they suck.
There is nothing wrong with you voluntarily donating your own funds to your favorite charity, in this case educating other people's children. That is noble. However, advocating that government goons rob your neighbor to donate to your favorite charity is evil.
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