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Old 11-21-2017, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,324 posts, read 1,787,341 times
Reputation: 3284

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Well, we tried that. It's just that there are no longer any mills to send the kids off to so they can earn their way.

Reading this, it's no surprise that China is gearing up to kick your American butts.
Yep the anti intellectualism in the US is astounding. There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. Issac Asimov
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:55 PM
 
29,596 posts, read 16,342,548 times
Reputation: 13729
I dont see anyone arguing against education, just being robbed to pay for an inadequate one.
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,324 posts, read 1,787,341 times
Reputation: 3284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I dont see anyone arguing against education, just being robbed to pay for an inadequate one.
Public schools aren't perfect but they are much better than forcing everyone into private schools. You think public schools are bad imagine for profit schools not even teaching students at all just having them show up think University of Phoenix type places. Also the the whole taxes is theft argument is a fallacy no one is forcing you to stay in the USA. Why don't you move to a third world country lots of tax evasion happens in those places you would think that since they are closer to your ideal society that they would be more advanced than the USA.
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
4,784 posts, read 1,617,863 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The slaves didn't enjoy the benefits of slavery, do I need to point this out?
The quote wasn't directed at a slave. It was directed at someone criticizing the practice of slavery even though they benefit from it.

Quote:
Thing is, you walked into your roommate situation a fully functioning adult who could contribute. You were fully in your right to be annoyed.

But you don't enter society as a net contributor - unless you popped into existence as a 20-something young human being with all the skills needed to survive in a complex society, like some Libertarians apparently did. And we have about 5 millennia of judeo-christian-confucian-hammurabian-animist moral code telling us that the widows and the fatherless shouldn't be left to fend for themselves.

If you want to have an argument about how our tax funds can be used better or smarter or more sparingly, cool. Welcome to politics. Because damn, there's plenty of room for improvement. But if you just don't want to contribute to living in the complex intermeshed system that is a First-World country, I'm sure you can find places without taxation that will welcome you. It's just that they suck.
I'm not seeing a coherent point here, which could be my own fault. The point of the story is that I had no obligation to pay for the TV just because they all wanted it, and they'd be at fault if they resorted to force.

Same applies if you and your neighbors want roads, or education, or healthcare, or anything else. Adding people to he equation doesn't change anything (and people get more confused and detached from their personal lives when you talk large scale, which is why I like keeping it simple).
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:31 PM
 
32,093 posts, read 16,499,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
The quote wasn't directed at a slave. It was directed at someone criticizing the practice of slavery even though they benefit from it.
Ah. OK, that makes more sense. I'd say there's a huge difference in that slavery (or child labor, for that matter) had people laboring who had no say in what happened with the fruits of their labor. Vote, get involved, if you don't like where your tax funds are going. My city just kicked half the city council out on their corrupt butts. You and I could probably agree on a few hundred items that could be improved.

Quote:
I'm not seeing a coherent point here, which could be my own fault. The point of the story is that I had no obligation to pay for the TV just because they all wanted it, and they'd be at fault if they resorted to force.
Agreed. Thing is, we simply can't fine-tune society at large towards the preferences of each individual. It's easy to say that "aggression can never be initiated", it's a bit harder when we need to weigh the rights of one person against the other. And it's still worth remembering that we enter society without being able to contribute. Babies are ridiculously non-productive.

Quote:
Same applies if you and your neighbors want roads, or education, or healthcare, or anything else.
Honestly, I don't see the anti-government people actively escaping roads, education and healthcare. We're enjoying the fruits of centuries' worth of labor in building a working society.

Quote:
Adding people to he equation doesn't change anything (and people get more confused and detached from their personal lives when you talk large scale, which is why I like keeping it simple).
But scale has a huge impact. The transcontinental railroad was or the Hoover dam were massively supported by government measures because they took forever to become lucrative and because the project was too large for any one private enterprise to undertake. We don't need government to mow our lawns (although some HOAs... - but I digress), but scale plays a role. And again, I can't come up with a neat delineation. Such is pragmatism.

Of course, I'm ultimately handicapped in that I'm arguing for the clunky system in place, warts and all. Hard to compete with a pure ideal that's not burdened down by its realization.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:45 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
No its just known for doing what individuals and markets don't. Most reasonable people support public schools because they don't want illiterate hooligans running around. Your solution privatize everything would be a disaster for many people it would be good for the wealthy so if your goal is to empower them at all costs I understand your view.
Except many public schools put out the exact thing you say people don't want...
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:50 PM
 
3,898 posts, read 1,189,444 times
Reputation: 3057
How about don't have a car don't pay taxes.

Don't have a fire don't pay taxes.

Don't need the police don't pay taxes.

Asinine.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:49 PM
 
32,093 posts, read 16,499,288 times
Reputation: 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Except many public schools put out the exact thing you say people don't want...
If your toaster burns the bread, do you throw up your hands and give up on toast or do you watch it more carefully, perhaps replace it with a better toaster? (Yes, I stole that from Fernando Savater.)
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:29 PM
 
20,586 posts, read 8,765,570 times
Reputation: 7082
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
How many of you are married with no kids but pay the same health insurance premium as a family of four? That was always my gripe when I was married.

How about the federal government stop incentivizing people to have more kids than they can afford in the form of tax credits?


This a catch 24 since republicans want to make abortion illegal again.
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:17 AM
 
13,572 posts, read 9,237,936 times
Reputation: 4360
Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
How about don't have a car don't pay taxes.

Don't have a fire don't pay taxes.

Don't need the police don't pay taxes.

Asinine.
That sound fair to me. If i need the police or fire dept then i just pay a up front charge per use.
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