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Old 11-17-2017, 04:01 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,752,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post

Although this does seem like quite a bit of effort on the OP to try and deflect current discussions.
Let me be clear: any sleazy man who would make a woman feel uncomfortable on purpose is no man at all, be he Al Franken or anyone else. Sexual harassment is never okay...EVEN IF IT'S A WOMAN DOING IT!

Now, is that "deflecting" a discussion, or adding to it?
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:14 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,757,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Okay, so saying "a man of few words...I like that" is something she would say to her grandson?

And it was not "her shoulder touching mine." As I said, she pressed her shoulder against mine...after saying "I looked good"....


If she just asked me about getting wheat grass and junk food, it would have been no big deal...but I don't like getting random compliments from strange women while trying to go to the store.

You and I both know that if the genders were flipped, you would have a completely different reaction.

Thank you for proving my point.
No, I don't know that. If I had been standing in line and a guy did and said the same things she did, I would have thought he was trying to be friendly and if I was in the right mood I would have exchanged some harmless chit-chat and forgot about it two minutes after I left the store. If I wasn't in the mood to chit-chat I would have found a way to dismiss him. I'm not an uptight, anti-social person but that's just me. I stand by my original analysis of the situation--- that it sounds more like two socially awkward people were standing in line next to each other and it did not go well.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:18 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,752,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
No, I don't know that. If I had been standing in line and a guy did and said the same things she did, I would have thought he was trying to be friendly and if I was in the right mood I would have exchanged some harmless chit-chat and forgot about it two minutes after I left the store. If I wasn't in the mood to chit-chat I would have found a way to dismiss him.
So saying "you look good" and rubbing ones body against another person is perfectly "harmless"?



Quote:
I'm not an uptight, anti-social person but that's just me. I stand by my original analysis of the situation--- that it sounds more like two socially awkward people were standing in line next to each other and it did not go well.
I stand in line with socially awkward people in line all the time...and 99% of the time, they are so awkward they mind their own damn business.

And no, looking someone in the eyes when they are dismissive and calling them "a man for few words...I like that" is NOT "just being friendly," especially when it's followed by unwanted physical contact.

You are the one who doesn't understand social norms here, not me.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:21 PM
 
26,304 posts, read 12,872,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
No, I don't know that. If I had been standing in line and a guy did and said the same things she did, I would have thought he was trying to be friendly and if I was in the right mood I would have exchanged some harmless chit-chat and forgot about it two minutes after I left the store. If I wasn't in the mood to chit-chat I would have found a way to dismiss him. I'm not an uptight, anti-social person but that's just me. I stand by my original analysis of the situation--- that it sounds more like two socially awkward people were standing in line next to each other and it did not go well.
Kind of interesting take. It points out why this is such a minefield for folks. Where the exact line is depends on the other person. While I, like you, would feel it was harmless, I know some folks that would utterly freak out about it.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Eastern Tennessee
2,538 posts, read 1,835,161 times
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For me the bottom line is this -- in a sexually aggressive situation if a man says "no" and really really means it, he can be reasonably assured there will be no physical intrusion. Women do not have that same assurance
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:34 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,147 posts, read 16,652,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
A few weeks ago I was at the grocery store up the road from me, buying some wheat grass, two Mexican Cokes, a box of rice crispies treats and a microwave pizza at 12:30am. While on line at the checkout, which was surprisingly long for that hour of the night, this rather large older woman sees what I'm buying and ask me why I have something healthy and something else that isn't. Instead of saying the truth (the wheat grass was for my cat, the junk food was me to to enjoy while smoking weed and finishing Stranger Things) I just shrugged and didn't say anything.

She winks at me and says "ohh, a mysterious man of few words, I like that." I immediately looked uncomfortable and said nothing. I took out my phone and started messing with it, hoping she would take a hint. Instead, she did this nasty pressing her shoulder against mine thing and said "you look nice."

I took a step back and nervously said "thanks" without looking at her. She asked me if I was okay, I said nothing. She asked me something else, but at that point I stopped listening to her and was just staring at my phone. Finally, she took a hint and checked her things out and left. I checked my few items and paid, and as I left I saw several people on line—all of them women—were giggling at the whole scenario.

I went home and kept thinking: what if the genders were reversed? Would they laugh at it if a younger woman was made to feel uncomfortable by a nasty, older man? No. They would call that unacceptable, and they would be 100% right.

But when it's a woman doing it, it's okay.

And its not just men. I have heard from multiple women than occasionally, women who are interested in women will overstep their boundaries and be outright creepy toward other women. But the same psychopaths who march down the street for "womxn's liberation" have jack to say when a drunken woman touches another woman's rear without asking.

Why is it okay when women do it?

I have never met a single male who serves alcohol in a restaurant or bar who doesn't have a story about some woman making him feel uncomfortable. This usually happens with older women: they get a little booze in their system and suddenly they think it's okay to harass the bartender, server, etc. And from the reactions of management, other team members, and other guests, they apparently have the right to do so (I am the one manager who, if I saw that, would not hesitate to kick said woman out)

And spare me, spare me the whole "you're a big man who can defend himself so you don't feel threatened!" line. If I would have bunched that, or any other woman, who rubbed herself on me, I would be guilty of "violence against women" and we all know the fact that she started it would fall on deaf ears in the courts.

I love SJW logic: "men can't be harassed by women because they can defend themselves against women...but if a man does defend himself, he's guilty of violence against women."

Be it at a bar or at the grocery store or the gym, women should learn to respect people's dignity, just like men should.


This is going to come as a shock, but believe it or not, not all men find every female on Earth attractive, and not all men want attention from females.

Personally, I and many other men have been creeped out by women many times. I was as attracted to that woman or a few others who bothered me as your average female is to Harvey Weinstein. And yes, women and men have the right to reject anyone for any reason.

Just because they are females who think they are attractive does not mean they are entitled to whatever man on Earth they want, and it does not mean that men should feel any obligation to reciprocate the female's advances if he doesn't want to.

Why do women think they are entitled to whatever men they want to and think that they can get away with being disgusting and disrespectful?
Most women do not think they can get away with being disrespectful. Why didn't you just tell her to back the f'up?

I would never act like that with a complete stranger. Gross.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:39 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,757,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
So saying "you look good" and rubbing ones body against another person is perfectly "harmless"?





I stand in line with socially awkward people in line all the time...and 99% of the time, they are so awkward they mind their own damn business.

And no, looking someone in the eyes when they are dismissive and calling them "a man for few words...I like that" is NOT "just being friendly," especially when it's followed by unwanted physical contact.

You are the one who doesn't understand social norms here, not me.
You are changing your story now to she was "rubbing her body against" you from your original statement that she pressed her shoulder against yours which you characterized as "nasty" but that's a subjective judgement call---nasty or being overly friendly or shades in between. The litmus test for that is would you feel the same condemnation of what was said and done if the woman had been a beautiful young woman who you were attracted to. Would you still say what happened was disgusting? Maybe (maybe you didn't) get hit on at the grocery store. Big deal. Men and women as we age learn how to handle awkward situations all the time. The line between possibly getting hit on and sexual harassment was not crossed here. She had no power over you and she finally took the hint to bug off. How old was she, how old are you?
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:18 PM
 
6,778 posts, read 6,565,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Did I mention anything about touching a minor? No. I have no idea where you got that from.

And she touched me, as I said, and it made me uncomfortable. So why is that okay? That's what I'm asking.

Deflection is usually what people do when they know they lost the argument. Don't believe me? Look at Trump's behavior sometime.
I'm going to tell you something I tell a lot of other guys who haven't quite gotten around to accepting the world for what it is yet: life is full of hypocrisy and double standards and this one of the biggies. It's part of your curse of being male. You get to suffer injustice at the hands of women unless you're happy and content being an evolutionary dead end.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:22 PM
 
2,743 posts, read 1,773,158 times
Reputation: 3378
I think you should go home and have a good cry. These women have no idea what it’s like being a man in a man’s world.

I would also make a doctors appointment to make sure her shoulder wasn’t carrying an STD.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,566 posts, read 52,739,145 times
Reputation: 70877
I don't think anyone thinks it's ok for women to sexually harass anyone.
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