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Old 11-18-2017, 11:13 AM
Status: "Elect a clown? Expect a circus!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,062 posts, read 40,832,224 times
Reputation: 29744

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Kind of an expensive prospect to have a "build it and they will come" attitude about

Maybe limited lines as opposed to attempting to replace the automobile entirely.


Pay for it with private investment funds instead of my taxes and I have no issues with it at all....... assuming it's all done without confiscating private land under eminent domain.

I don't think proponents of rail have that intent. Hell, I like cars and driving and hope I never am forced to have an autonomous car.

But as un-people friendly as air travel has become I'd think on certain routes like BOS-DC, LA-SFO, et al that HSR would be a very attractive and time competitive choice to many. I was in Switzerland years ago and in the town of Davos I believe it was saw a city passenger trolley pulling a hopper car loaded with coal. Perhaps a passenger/freight mix would make HSR more viable on some routes?
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:19 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,208,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
You might be right in some ways but your argument is kind of the dictionary definition of a moot point.

The vast majority in America would probably rather see investment in rebuiding and streamlining the existing infrastructure.

The whole concept of rail requires a more collectivist society than we have in America....

So, add it to the socialist wish list along with single payer healthcare.
subsidy is a socialist thing. Massive subsidy to gas price, highways, parking, and airports should be dealt with. Then we talk about what people really prefer.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,045 posts, read 5,849,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
No, not really, even if someone had the money to build and fund its operation, the potential threat to other industries would be justification for Govt to step in and shut it down.

I just read yesterday about a man who devised some way for an internal combustion engine to run on pure water, turns out, he was found dead of a suicide not long after..Gee, I wonder why that happened? LOL
I also believe everything I read on the internet. Especially conspiracy stuff. Frinstance,
Ronald Reagan was not the President. He died after the election and was replaced by an actor who looked like him. It's true, I read it somewhere.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:21 AM
 
5,227 posts, read 2,301,859 times
Reputation: 3667
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Not just driving. In the US airports are very heavily subsidized too. This is why airfare is relatively cheap.

The US government should really stop subsidizing all this and that. People should be asked to pay the real price for driving and flying, and then they will make the most rational choice instead of saying "the car gives me FREEDOM". Yes, we all want a car to go wherever we want to, whenever we want to, without following any fixed route or schedule, but the thing is, we should also pay the fair price for that privilege.
PLEASE take time and actually Read "The Preamble to the Constitution" !!!!! "Darn" !!!!!!!!!!!! Then Read the Preamble to individual States. It might be quite enlightening.

Everything that comes up Republican whining about who and what people should pay, then they fall over backwards to defeat themselves so the wealthy can rip off the people and the nations. Geez!!! get off the greed mobile, we do pay a fair price, and in something we over pay... is one has a concept to understand that wages has not kept up with society and its cost increases, we have working people as well as retired people, living on a poverty wage social security, and many have pensions, that are long outdated and insufficient to "live to the promoted concept" of American claiming a higher standard of living" because many cannot meet that standards when the imbalance is so great. The more the wealthy hoard, the worst the economy of the nation becomes. Because money is meant to "circulate" and in the circulation is the value benefit of the wealthy and well being of a nation. Greed and self ish obsessiveness and vile resentments upon and against others is the basis for the economic deprivations that plague American civic and civic society.

Quote:
PREAMBLE !!!!

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
The phrase "promote the general welfare" means to not only care for the land and the governance system, but to care for the people and the civic society of our nation in whole. which includes the health of the people, public programs, assistance and yes, Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security and many other provisions that benefit the Welfare of the Nation and Its People .... and our system of taxation serves to meet with the duties to maintain and sustain this nation and its attributes, programs and developments; it also means our economic welfare and what is necessary to maintain it, sustain it and promote it, as well as to prosper it, this includes the infrastructure and much else that has made America become America.

Our government invest in much that makes this country function. One might want to do research and find out, just how much of government support is involved in what is Industry and they might find out many of the jobs they do, have a variety of Governmental attributes that provide much to them, by many means.

As a simple example one can get a broad view, is to think: "of the cities that expend and invest to contribute to bring and support Sports Teams and to help "build stadiums"...... They do so...because... in the big picture it means jobs and revenue, improve cultural attributes and provides entertainment and recreation to and for the people and improves the domestic tranquility because it offers options to enage!!!!


When people get over this delusion that every man is an island unto himself, and consider what is a civic and civil society, they will too, understand what is an economic entity unto it all and what role government plays in making it work.

Americans are too easy and too quick to "have resentment" at seeing anyone and anything helped, and resent that it is done so by what our Tax money does. It's the most "insidious thing ever" and it is 90% Republican Mentality that is always griping and whining, and most of them choose to live in rural remote areas with minimual attributes, so they want to deny anything and everything to everyone else. If American can ever get rid of these mentality types, or they "grow up and learn to live in a civil and civic society and stop trying to deny anything and everything to anyone and everyone, this country could move ahead at an alarming rate and pace. But these types fight everything !!! whining about "their tax dollars".
"We as a society have so many" whom are so vile in that resentful madness of selfishness and self centeredness, until we even fight against our tax dollars helping the "health of human beings"... and Human Beings are our greatest National Security element in this American Nation and Its systems and society.

Selfishness is destructive and that's why so much is failing in America, because of the mentality of "resentments"!!!!! Pay your taxes, use and benefit in what you need and engage and enjoy what one wants, and then get out of the way of other and simply shut up about it. But they can't do that, because they want to "determine who can and who cannot use or benefit from whats in society.

These are the same type of people who used, benefited and gained and enjoyed things "everyone's" tax money paid into, during segregation, and they wanted to deny it to others because of the color of their skin or their ethnicity. That's is so ingrained in some, until they don't even realize that is the underlying basis of much of their crying and whining, but they are not aware enough to even know in themselves that is within the basis of their madness. It is Pure Insane !!!!

Other countries like China, who see ALL THEIR PEOPLE AS CHINESE, don't have this "deny this or that because in one areas the people have darker skin, or they come from a past dynasty of this or that type, they build and create things "FOR ALL THEIR PEOPLE"... American can't even sustain and maintain nothing for trying to deny something to some group based on some stupid bias and bigotry madness.

The past is done... "American's are American's" Deal with it !!!! and get out of the way of society and its movement into its own future.

The obsessive pursuit of brevity has made people unable to have the tolerance to even think... !!!!!! Most have not attained the developed capability to comprehend enough to rely on brevity. Brevity is best used among a society who has developed enough knowledge, information and depth of understanding, to know how to ingest brevity. Brevity has made fools of many and led many to ruins... and caused many to destroy much.

All during the Obama Administration every time he set focus to do something to help America and American people, it was met with Republican Whining about debt and deficit,... now with a Republican in office, they have not a word to say about the Stupidity of Trump fattening his pockets and those like him, and trying to award themselves tax concession which will add "trillions of $$$" to the deficit AND Damage millions of lives..... That's the pure raw insanity of the Republican Mind. Still living with Confederate Ideals..... acting like they are SERF trying to give anything and everything to their wealthy masters at the deficit of even the ability to provide the basics for themselves and others.

America long ago should have mandated people take no less than 4 yrs of Civic and basic Economics educational training to learn what is a Civil Society within a Civic Environment.

Many claim to have read the Constitution and all they did was 'recite words' with not a darn clue as to what is the depth of the meanings.

Last edited by Chance and Change; 11-18-2017 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,045 posts, read 5,849,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Massive subsidy to gas price, highways, parking, and airports should be dealt with. Then we talk about what people really prefer.
Massive subsidy to the price of gasoline? Oh, you must mean the $.18 federal TAX and average $.28 State TAX. Yeah, that's a subsidy . . .one that actually goes to pay for (drum roll please) highways and airports
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:33 AM
 
23,860 posts, read 11,854,701 times
Reputation: 10068
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
China built 22,000 km (14,000 miles) of high speed rail in about 8 years, accounting for 65% of the world total, vastly transforming the rail transportation in the country. The US so far has built none, and one argument is that it is too expensive.

Admittedly it is much cheaper to build HSR in China than in the US. For China's case, it cost about $340 billion.

According to the world bank, it is 1/3 cheaper to build HSR in China than in developed countries. Let's say US cost is even higher and is three times as much. To build the same network it would cost US taxpayers $1 trillion.

Cost of High Speed Rail in China One Third Lower than in Other Countries

Sounds expensive? Not really. During the same time China was building HSR, the US spent $2.4 trillion in the Afghanistan and Iraq war alone, enough to build the Chinese network 2.5 times.

Yet people still think it is too expensive to build high speed rail in the US, even in the densely populated coastal areas.

It is just unbelievable that there is not an outcry over such wasteful taxpayers money on foreign wars while not investing in the outdated infrastructure. For those who think "we have cars and planes, and we don't need the damn high speed rail", come on. That's just provincial because you have never taken a high speed rail.
The government would have to subsidize it.

And then property would have to be confiscated by eminent domain to build a right-of-way for the high speed rails.

Currently Amtrak pays to use the existing class I railroads tracks like BNSF or UP which have a maximum speed of about 70mph.

Don't see it happening at all.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,425,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
subsidy is a socialist thing. Massive subsidy to gas price, highways, parking, and airports should be dealt with. Then we talk about what people really prefer.
I agree. Remove all subsidies and let the market choose the best solutions. Unfortunately, politicians hate giving up the power to control the people so it will never happen.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,425,057 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
The phrase "promote the general welfare" means to not only care for the land and the governance system, but to care for the people and the civic society of our nation in whole. which includes the health of the people, public programs, assistance and yes, Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security and many other provisions
Actually, "promote the general welfare" means whatever politicians want it to mean. It could also include free country club memberships and Porsche sports cars for everybody if that's what politicians decide.

The Supreme Court has supported the expansion of that clause for over 100 years.

200 years ago it meant one thing. Today, it's entirely different.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:41 AM
 
5,227 posts, read 2,301,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
I agree. Remove all subsidies and let the market choose the best solutions. Unfortunately, politicians hate giving up the power to control the people so it will never happen.
Because they know we live in a society of "REGULATORY GOVERNANCE"... NOT one of run free and wild any way and every way, anytime and all the time as one selfishly thinks to do.

A society with a history of greed and vile malice as one that has a history of enslaving others, can't be trusted to be ungoverned and unregulated !!!!! Left up to people, they'd set up a "hog pen" next door to a day care center, and claim it is for the sake of profit. That's the generalized ignorance that would exist in an "ungoverned society that did not have systems of "regulatory management". Heck... already we have ignorant people who fight against "city ordinances".... because they can't respect what is the nature and make up of a city.... all they can think about is themselves.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,425,057 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
Other countries like China, who see ALL THEIR PEOPLE AS CHINESE, don't have this "deny this or that because in one areas the people have darker skin,
Just like China, our roads are open to people of all colors.

Unlike China, our people of all colors can own their land.
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