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Old 11-20-2017, 09:25 PM
 
18,970 posts, read 7,375,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
one year in a California prison costs taxpayers $75,000. If you put someone in prison at 25 and he is in prison until he dies at 78, that is 53 years X $75,000 = $3,975,000 how many people can you afford to keep in prison for life if that's what it costs for one inmate?
It costs far, far LESS.

Liberals like to cite the gross cost, but most of it is either construction employing enormous amounts of tax-paying folks, or staff, also tax-paying folks, year in, year out.

In short, with the exception of materials used in jails coming from offshore, all US prison spending contributes to our economy, as staff are productive citizens who pay taxes and spend salaries on homes, cars, food, etc.

I'd like to see a NET cost analysis. It would be very small on a per prisoner basis.
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,440 posts, read 5,828,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I agree this would make a massive difference. I also think unless the offence was violent that employers have no business asking if you have a criminal record.
So how many felons have you hired? How many have you rented your property to? If you have the choice if hiring someone equally qualified with a felony or not you expect us to believe you're going to choose the felon?

Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. If they've been 'crime free' for years they may continue to be, but who's going to hire them until then? You?
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,145 posts, read 13,651,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwong7 View Post
I'd be curious to know how the recidivism has changed over time. Is the criminal justice system creating more crime, is it helping the average citizen, is it helping victims of crime, is it helping the accused? I'm generally a believer of restorative justice wherever appropriate. I myself am instinctively petty and vindictive, but I realize the world would be a much better place if we were more remorseful and considerate towards each other.

As for the incarceration, I'd say 1 month or 10 years doesn't really seem all too different to me; I would equally try to avoid either experience all together. It seems like longer sentences only serve to keep the convicted away from general society for a longer period; there doesn't seem to be much focus on reform. My view is that convicts should be evaluated based on their crimes, their level of remorse, their skills, and their goals in life to determine if an alternative sentence would be better for them AND society. I fully realize that there are many people who simply cannot be reformed and those are the folks I do not want in our society.
Recidivism varies by type of crime, age of offender, and post release services offered within the jurisdiction. A 2014 U.S. Department of Justice report looked at state prisoners released on parole in 30 states in 2005 and found that nearly 68 percent were arrested for a new crime within three years and nearly 77 percent within five years.

There are some signs that post incarceration job training/education/behavioral health programs actually work. In California, AB109 which went into effect in 2012 mandated that non violent, non serious offenders serve their time in county jail rather than state prison and they turned over supervision of most inmates to county probation rather than state parole. State parole was an abject failure, they offered few if any rehab or resources for parolees and usually only made contact with them once a month. A large number were homeless and the majority without jobs.

The counties were given large amounts of money to implement AB109 and the counties that spent the money on expanding their jails didn't fare as well as those which developed programs for probationers involving job training, education, and mental health counseling. Those programs, when done well, seem to reduce recidivism. I've talked to probation officers in two counties and they have both said that day reporting centers where probationers report either every day or a few times a week seem to work better than meeting with them once or twice a month, and probation officers are able to mandate job training, educational programs and sober living facilities, if the probationer refuses they can be sanctioned with jail time. They both said their 3 year recidivism rate has been between 25 and 30%.

This will give you some idea of the kinds of programs the state is funding Board of State and Community Corrections - News
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,145 posts, read 13,651,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
It costs far, far LESS.
Liberals like to cite the gross cost, but most of it is either construction employing enormous amounts of tax-paying folks, or staff, also tax-paying folks, year in, year out.
In short, with the exception of materials used in jails coming from offshore, all US prison spending contributes to our economy, as staff are productive citizens who pay taxes and spend salaries on homes, cars, food, etc.
I'd like to see a NET cost analysis. It would be very small on a per prisoner basis.
Here you go..see for yourself: http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/2017-18/pd...udget/5210.pdf

And here's an article about it.
Does it cost $75K per year to lock up an inmate in California? | PolitiFact California

And if you don't like that one, here's another
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...htmlstory.html
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:33 AM
 
18,970 posts, read 7,375,095 times
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and much of the 75k flows into the economy, as guards spend their salaries, which the article does not cover.

Lefties gleefully recite gross cost as in reality, they think criminals should simply be free to keep working at their "career".
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,553 posts, read 16,514,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
It costs far, far LESS.

Liberals like to cite the gross cost, but most of it is either construction employing enormous amounts of tax-paying folks, or staff, also tax-paying folks, year in, year out.

In short, with the exception of materials used in jails coming from offshore, all US prison spending contributes to our economy, as staff are productive citizens who pay taxes and spend salaries on homes, cars, food, etc.

I'd like to see a NET cost analysis. It would be very small on a per prisoner basis.
That's not accurate economics. If it were true, we should pay people to run around and break windows so window repairmen could be hired to fix them, thereby infusing the economy with more money.

It's called "The Broken Window Fallacy". read about it.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...ow-fallacy.asp
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:12 AM
 
3,871 posts, read 1,917,815 times
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Within 3 years of release over half of criminals commit another crime. Within 5 year, 3/4 do.

The purpose of prison should be to confine criminals. Criminals should serve their full sentences so they will have fewer years left in which to commit more crimes.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,383 posts, read 1,821,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
So how many felons have you hired? How many have you rented your property to? If you have the choice if hiring someone equally qualified with a felony or not you expect us to believe you're going to choose the felon?

Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. If they've been 'crime free' for years they may continue to be, but who's going to hire them until then? You?
I've rented a few units to felons never had a problem they weren't violent felonies by the way. I'm glad I was able to provide housing for them.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:43 AM
 
9,738 posts, read 8,072,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
One of the reasons the US Justice system is so inept at dealing with crime is US prisons are essentially college for inmates they go and come out a better criminal. Solutions to deal with this largely fall on deaf ears since our country is set up to massively punish people even for minor crimes and offenses. Solutions to this crisis remove the stigma of hiring a ex convict if they can't get jobs because of criminal record this in effect creates a double punishment despite the fact the time has been served. If criminals can't find jobs they return to crime. If we as a country cared about reducing crime we need to help train prisoners in demand jobs and fields make it so they don't become de facto second class citizens on release and help line up jobs for them. With a lower recidivism rate we could have a higher GDP as more citizens become productive and pay taxes.


They should be work camps with zero privileges. People should be sent to prison for punishment, not rehabilitation.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:47 AM
 
11,999 posts, read 17,517,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
How about actually offering rehabilitation and health restoration instead of archaic "punishment," along with poor nutrition and sub-standard living conditions?


Somehow I do not think hardened convicts react well to bespectacled liberals encouraging them to get in touch with their feelings, eat vegan, and go to yoga classes.

You are welcome to march into Attica or Pelican Bay and prove me wrong.
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