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Old 11-19-2017, 01:41 PM
 
30,881 posts, read 24,210,085 times
Reputation: 17772

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
You two are having a really hard time keeping up, aren't you?

You're both just blowing hot air. Protocols, checks and balances, blah blah blah. There ARE no "protocols." You don't know what you're talking about. The President has the unlimited authority to launch nuclear weapons any time he wants, and the only thing that would prevent it would be if someone below him in the chain of command chose to disobey orders. That's not a "protocol"; it's a departure from protoocol.

Now, in the event that the moron decided to give the order for no apparent reason, would those below him in the chain of command disobey him? I'd say probably, under most circumstances. But in the heat of the moment, when every second counts, someone might not. It's a pretty damned tenuous hair from which to hang the sword that dangles over the head of all humanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
That's the stinker. An order is given and then it is followed In some situations legality has nothing to do with it, commonsense has nothing to do with it nor does morality or anything else. A good soldier does exactly as he's told and generals don't become generals by questioning orders.

If Americans were ever to take to the streets against their government the US military would, when ordered, go to said streets in order to maintain order. They would shoot to kill if ordered.

I know I can't depend on the judgement of robots following protocol. Especially in a culture such as we have here.
you guys must have the tin foil hat concession at the local fair. launching nuclear weapons is not as simple as trump calling up the generals, giving his ID codes, and then telling them to launch the weapons. it doesnt work that way. the protocol is for the generals to call the president to REQUEST the release of the nuclear weapons, because they have good indications that a nuclear strike has been launched against the US.

and it wont come from the pentagon either, it will come from NORAD, or omaha. and most likely trump would authorize the release of the nukes when he is being rushed to the air field where air force one is located. also the looking glass aircraft will also be in the air, so there are mobile command and control aircraft in the air on both sides of the country, and the air force one giving orders.

in other words, you people need to calm down, take a valium, have a shot or two of what ever hard liquor you like, take at toke off your doobie, and realize that TRUMP CANNOT ORDER THE LAUNCH OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS JUST BECAUSE HE WANTS TO.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:03 PM
 
29,805 posts, read 15,208,051 times
Reputation: 15584
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
Didn't he solemnly swear to obey the orders a President when he enlisted decades ago?
Officers do not "enlist" (in a rare case of military terminology making sense, that's what enlisted men do) but apart from that - no. He swore to defend the Constitution and faithfully discharge his duties. If officers were just unthinking conduits for orders, we'd not need ranks much above 2nd lt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
An order is given and then it is followed. In some situations legality has nothing to do with it, commonsense has nothing to do with it nor does morality or anything else. A good soldier does exactly as he's told and generals don't become generals by questioning orders.
We're not dealing with "take and hold point 211" here. On the senior officer level, it is not just customary, it's expected that orders be interpreted according to the situation, the overall objective, standing orders etc. Officers are expected to use judgment - more and more as they advance.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
6,704 posts, read 4,165,907 times
Reputation: 14935
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you guys must have the tin foil hat concession at the local fair. launching nuclear weapons is not as simple as trump calling up the generals, giving his ID codes, and then telling them to launch the weapons. it doesnt work that way. the protocol is for the generals to call the president to REQUEST the release of the nuclear weapons, because they have good indications that a nuclear strike has been launched against the US.

and it wont come from the pentagon either, it will come from NORAD, or omaha. and most likely trump would authorize the release of the nukes when he is being rushed to the air field where air force one is located. also the looking glass aircraft will also be in the air, so there are mobile command and control aircraft in the air on both sides of the country, and the air force one giving orders.

in other words, you people need to calm down, take a valium, have a shot or two of what ever hard liquor you like, take at toke off your doobie, and realize that TRUMP CANNOT ORDER THE LAUNCH OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS JUST BECAUSE HE WANTS TO.
I think you need to study up a bit, too. You're mistaken. You're only considering scenarios in which we are being attacked; but the President also has the authority to order a first strike. And he can order that anytime he wants to. The question of whether that order would be obeyed is obviously a legitimate one, but he does have the legal authority to give that order.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:14 PM
 
Location: 57
1,428 posts, read 770,277 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
Why are generals making these comments though that are just inviting the news media to go wild?

I doubt in an earlier, more dignified era that generals would speak so bluntly and public like this.

There is the first amendment but it just seems disrespectful to the commander and chief to give speeches passively like that.
I agree. But we're not in an earlier, more dignified era now, are we? Can you say "tweeting at 5am?" Blowback is a female dog.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:15 PM
 
29,805 posts, read 15,208,051 times
Reputation: 15584
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
President Trump is extremely experienced in diplomatic negotiation through his resort empire. President Trump has mastered the art of communication, negotiation and compromise through his decades of experience being one of the most successful real estate empire's the world has ever seen.

President Trump is almost always right. His comments or Tweet's have never caused an issue. He is a brilliant man and thinks everything through before he makes public comments.

I am sure the general is a very decorated servant but I think we all can agree that President Trump is a man of unquestioned brilliance.
Whoah, whoah, whoah. Dial it back, willya? You're clocking in at an intensity of roughly 700,000, and credibility was lost when you reached 11 or so.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:26 PM
 
30,737 posts, read 16,975,632 times
Reputation: 6785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
You two are having a really hard time keeping up, aren't you?

You're both just blowing hot air. Protocols, checks and balances, blah blah blah. There ARE no "protocols." You don't know what you're talking about. The President has the unlimited authority to launch nuclear weapons any time he wants, and the only thing that would prevent it would be if someone below him in the chain of command chose to disobey orders. That's not a "protocol"; it's a departure from protoocol.

Now, in the event that the moron decided to give the order for no apparent reason, would those below him in the chain of command disobey him? I'd say probably, under most circumstances. But in the heat of the moment, when every second counts, someone might not. It's a pretty damned tenuous hair from which to hang the sword that dangles over the head of all humanity.
Below is the quote I posted from post 48, straight from the Generals mouth.....

Quote:
I think some people think were stupid. Were not stupid people. We think about these things a lot. When you have this responsibility, how do you not think about it? I provide advice to the president, he will tell me what to do. And if its illegal, guess whats going to happen? Im going to say, Mr. President, thats illegal. And guess what hes going to do? Hes going to say, What would be legal? And well come up with options, with a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and thats the way it works. Its not that complicated.
Maybe YOU need to read and learn a little bit about PROTOCOL....Protocol involves both positive and NEGATIVE situations...sorry that had to be explained to you, but maybe you need to learn a little about the military, in general....

So the premise of this thread is what the general stated, now I posted exactly what the General stated, is he following protocol or not?
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:28 PM
 
30,737 posts, read 16,975,632 times
Reputation: 6785
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
He will probably be fired now.
Why? HE spoke the truth?

Here is the Generals quote:

Quote:
I think some people think were stupid. Were not stupid people. We think about these things a lot. When you have this responsibility, how do you not think about it? I provide advice to the president, he will tell me what to do. And if its illegal, guess whats going to happen? Im going to say, Mr. President, thats illegal. And guess what hes going to do? Hes going to say, What would be legal? And well come up with options, with a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and thats the way it works. Its not that complicated.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:30 PM
 
30,737 posts, read 16,975,632 times
Reputation: 6785
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you guys must have the tin foil hat concession at the local fair. launching nuclear weapons is not as simple as trump calling up the generals, giving his ID codes, and then telling them to launch the weapons. it doesnt work that way. the protocol is for the generals to call the president to REQUEST the release of the nuclear weapons, because they have good indications that a nuclear strike has been launched against the US.

and it wont come from the pentagon either, it will come from NORAD, or omaha. and most likely trump would authorize the release of the nukes when he is being rushed to the air field where air force one is located. also the looking glass aircraft will also be in the air, so there are mobile command and control aircraft in the air on both sides of the country, and the air force one giving orders.

in other words, you people need to calm down, take a valium, have a shot or two of what ever hard liquor you like, take at toke off your doobie, and realize that TRUMP CANNOT ORDER THE LAUNCH OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS JUST BECAUSE HE WANTS TO.

Another true post.....I can even break it down further for those on the left, for those who have trouble comprehending.......

Trump does not have the nuclear button under his bed....
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Old 11-19-2017, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
6,704 posts, read 4,165,907 times
Reputation: 14935
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee View Post
Trump does not have the nuclear button under his bed....
Did you notice anyone saying he did? Please try to follow along; I really didn't think it was that complicated.
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:29 PM
 
30,881 posts, read 24,210,085 times
Reputation: 17772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
I think you need to study up a bit, too. You're mistaken. You're only considering scenarios in which we are being attacked; but the President also has the authority to order a first strike. And he can order that anytime he wants to. The question of whether that order would be obeyed is obviously a legitimate one, but he does have the legal authority to give that order.
once again though there is no reason to order a first strike. and since there is no reason, and trump is in fact a businessman, and nuclear war would be bad for business, do you really think that trump would order a first strike?
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