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Old 11-20-2017, 07:19 AM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,049,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
You might want to ask that question to someone who actually disagrees with the premise. Every administration talks tough but doesn't really commit to actual effective solutions.

As far as I'm concerned, controlling illegal immigration needs to be a multi faceted approach.

Going after the employers seems to be a tactic that nobody wants to use even though it would probably be quite effective by removing the motive for them to come here in the first place.

Another way to reduce motive is to end the welfare state.
So, when might that happen in a meaningful way?
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
6,416 posts, read 2,262,209 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
No, actually Trump is doing less to stop employers from hiring illegals than either Bush or Obama.

"The chance that an illegal immigrant will be deported under the Obama administration is an average of 1.48 a year compared to 0.83 percent under the Bush administration. The Obama administration has surged enforcement immigration laws against employers issuing 15.5 times as many fines against employers and 8.3 times as many arrests for violating immigration laws as his predecessor. Detention for those who crossed the border has also increased under the Obama administration including for many of the roughly 227,000 children and families who have surged across the border since 2010."
https://www.cato.org/publications/co...cy-immigration


Where in my post did you read that I claimed Trump was doing more in that respect?
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
6,416 posts, read 2,262,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
As someone in the industry, I can tell you the bolded is false. You have to have a valid and LEGALLY VERIFIABLE US birth certificate or Passport if an immigrant just to get your CDL permit, and they do check, so forged copies won't work

A company I worked for for five years employed delivery drivers that I know for a fact were illegal. Some were in smaller trucks that didn't require a CDL though.

But how about addressing the rest of my post rather than just cherry picking the truck drivers?
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
6,416 posts, read 2,262,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So, when might that happen in a meaningful way?

When citizens demand it rather than making excuses for illegals and the companies that hire them.
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:32 AM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,049,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
When citizens demand it rather than making excuses for illegals and the companies that hire them.
Excuses are what we see from the vast majority. For the majority this is nothing more than a political division point.
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,192 posts, read 11,367,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
As someone in the industry, I can tell you the bolded is false. You have to have a valid and LEGALLY VERIFIABLE US birth certificate or Passport if an immigrant just to get your CDL permit, and they do check, so forged copies won't work
But it sounded good lol
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:43 AM
 
23,905 posts, read 17,588,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Grasshopper View Post
California has said, in law, that it will assist ICE with the deportation of CRIMINAL illegal aliens, but not with those who are innocent of crime. The reason is simple. Our cities are safer when people - ALL people - come forward to police to report crime and suspicious activity. If some people are afraid of being deported if they report a crime, they will not report it. Neither will they be witnesses to crimes they have seen. Neither will they cooperate with investigations. If everyone in a community helps the police, we will all be better off. So everyone needs to feel safe in doing so.
you might want to re-think that sentence.


Quote:
illegal aliens
Quote:
but not with those who are innocent of crime

what does illegal mean, again?
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:44 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,192 posts, read 11,367,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
When citizens demand it rather than making excuses for illegals and the companies that hire them.
Trump does nothing about employers hiring illegals and you want to blame citizens for not demanding it..seriously?
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:53 AM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,049,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Trump does nothing about employers hiring illegals and you want to blame citizens for not demanding it..seriously?
Yes. It's why politicians lie. They know as long as they say the right thing, they will still get the votes, they don't actually have to do the right thing.
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: la la land
27,192 posts, read 11,367,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Wages for any job are set by the market and what profit margins will allow. If you remove the lowest percentage of workers willing to do the job from the pool of potential employees, then wages will increase or the jobs will not exist at all. It's called supply and demand.......and it ain't rocket science.
Illegals for the most part do not work 'under the table' they work for the same wage offered citizens, employers prefer them for other reasons, i.e. they are less likely to report violations of wage /hours/working conditions, you can fire them if they file a workers comp claim, they almost never become involved in unionization efforts. AND according to you, so few are actually occupying these jobs they couldn't possibly influence wages, i.e. 20% of restaurant workers can't keep wages down for the 80% who are citizens (see how that works)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Illegals have all but taken over the lions share of construction work in many areas of the country.......these are jobs that used to be the vocation of choice for blue collar American workers who either could not afford to go to college or were just not inclined to that type of career and enjoy learning a trade and working with their hands. Skilled trade jobs like carpentry, painters, brick masons, roofers etc, that used to provide the worker with a good living wage after putting in their time mastering it, now have pay scales so low that they are barely better than flipping burgers thanks to a flood of illegal labor in the market. Illegals have also made inroads into other blue collar jobs such as factory workers, forklift drivers, order pickers, truck drivers etc.
Actually automation and the elimination of unions in many of the trades is what impacted wages more than anything else, and no, the "lions share" of construction jobs are not held by illegals, only 16% of building/construction trade jobs are held by undocumented people I would love to see your proof that 16% of emloyees supress wages for 84% of Citizens.

Wage stagnation is complex, but it has more to do with automation than it does "illegals"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/america...owing-fastest/

With that said, I am 100% in favor of mandatory e-verify, I think birthright citizenship is a disaster but I do not think that demonizing people who are already here because American employers were willing to hire them is right.
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