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They will never give up because they believe that they have a fictional right to impose their will upon others with aggression. Psychopaths generally are never healed. The believe that the fictional Collective is Divine, and the human beings exist only to serve the fictional Collective.
I've been rewatching a series comparing atheist vs. theist arguments and statist vs. non-statist arguments...it used to surprise me how similar the two are.
No matter what way you slice it, it seems as if the most ruthless, most greedy, most narcissistic people end up as the elite that ends up in power. Is there anything that can be done to eliminate, or at the very least, largely mitigate it? One idea I have is elimination of private property and limit on excess of personal property, and as capitalism needs culturalization to exists, so does communism, also horizontal democracy, more democracy in general where the people decides not a political elite distant from the people.
Capitalism is a system that doesn't simply harness but magnifies greed due to its structural requirements - the necessary eternal expansion of markets for the sake of unending capital accumulation held in the hands of those who own the means of production. If we want to ameliorate corrupting influences, it makes more sense to embrace a democratic socio-politico-economic system in which power is more widely distributed. This is socialism.
Many of the things we ascribe to "human nature" stem from material conditions, not from some intrinsic drive. We know that scarcity plays a role in fostering greed in humans. We know that because of our understanding of how many hunter-gatherer societies work, as well as early agricultural societies like the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture. When needs are met, there is little inherent need for status and wealth accumulation. When things are scarce and need to be exchanged or claimed, hierarchies develop. Societies are based on mankind's attempts at harnessing production. Change the mode of production and you begin to change how society operates.
You're blaming capitalists for something bankers did. Capitalism absolutely does not require "necessary eternal expansion of markets". That is just a response to usury. Blame bankers not capitalists. The interest charged on fake money requires eternal expansion. Real money wouldn't suffer from that curse.
I've been rewatching a series comparing atheist vs. theist arguments and statist vs. non-statist arguments...it used to surprise me how similar the two are.
The supposed atheists are the most brutal zealots of the religion of State, or of the Collective. Humans are but mere servants of the Collective and are of no value whatsoever if not serving the interests of the fictional Collective. This is the most evil of all religions ever devised. And then they try to laugh at other religions because they worship benevolent Gods without realizing the silliness of worshiping the GODvernment.
They see individual human freedom and action as evil, yet somehow believe a government composed of those same evil humans as good. They advocate that government commit crimes against others that they would never approve of one person doing to another.
As for myself, I need no god to tell me that statists are evil. I naturally see the use of aggression as evil as I would not want others dictating my life, I understand that I have no right to dictate the life of others. In other words, atheism and libertarianism can go hand in hand.
For a collectivist/statist to say they are atheist is funny to me, because to believe in collectivism/statism you must believe that the collective is of supreme importance and that the individual is of little to no importance. That literally makes it a religion. So technically, collectivists/statists are barbaric religious zealots.
Can anything realistically be done to combat all the awful, narcissistic, greedy people coming into power?
If the past is an indication of the future, then no. Those who have gone out of power are as awful, narcissistic, and greedy as those coming into power.
History of mankind says that is the cards mankind has been dealt and for thousands of years it has been the struggle of mankind to play their hand. The best they have been able to come up with is a contract. Its the story of the chicken and the egg. Who will enforce a contract ? If there is no enforcement then there is no reason to enter into a contract. Its meaningless.
We are seeing a lot of politics replacing religion these days, much the way cults replace religion and family ties. Of course people have been willing to kill for Jesus or for Allah for centuries, which has nothing to do with the teaching of Jesus or Mohammed.... People are simply brainwashed by the powers that be who do it for their own benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
The supposed atheists are the most brutal zealots of the religion of State, or of the Collective. Humans are but mere servants of the Collective and are of no value whatsoever if not serving the interests of the fictional Collective. This is the most evil of all religions ever devised. And then they try to laugh at other religions because they worship benevolent Gods without realizing the silliness of worshiping the GODvernment.
They see individual human freedom and action as evil, yet somehow believe a government composed of those same evil humans as good. They advocate that government commit crimes against others that they would never approve of one person doing to another.
As for myself, I need no god to tell me that statists are evil. I naturally see the use of aggression as evil as I would not want others dictating my life, I understand that I have no right to dictate the life of others. In other words, atheism and libertarianism can go hand in hand.
For a collectivist/statist to say they are atheist is funny to me, because to believe in collectivism/statism you must believe that the collective is of supreme importance and that the individual is of little to no importance. That literally makes it a religion. So technically, collectivists/statists are barbaric religious zealots.
No matter what way you slice it, it seems as if the most ruthless, most greedy, most narcissistic people end up as the elite that ends up in power...
Remainder of inane rant mercifully redacted in the interest of brevity.
Forget about it. Control of economic production by the central government doesn't work economically, but it does kill millions of people (e.g., the now defunct Soviet Union, China, etc.)
Unless, of course, one is historically illiterate enough to think that Josef Stalin, Mao Tse-Dong, et al, weren't ruthless, greedy, narcissistic, etc., in which case you'll probably believe anything, no matter how outlandish.
Newsflash. This post is no longer relevant because the 2016 election solved everything. Our leaders are perfect and everyone is happy all the time.
America is Great Again, and it only took one day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleh
newsflash, we avoided that in Nov of 2016 when Hilary was denied the Presidency
No matter what way you slice it, it seems as if the most ruthless, most greedy, most narcissistic people end up as the elite that ends up in power. Is there anything that can be done to eliminate, or at the very least, largely mitigate it? One idea I have is elimination of private property and limit on excess of personal property, and as capitalism needs culturalization to exists, so does communism, also horizontal democracy, more democracy in general where the people decides not a political elite distant from the people.
Capitalism is a system that doesn't simply harness but magnifies greed due to its structural requirements - the necessary eternal expansion of markets for the sake of unending capital accumulation held in the hands of those who own the means of production. If we want to ameliorate corrupting influences, it makes more sense to embrace a democratic socio-politico-economic system in which power is more widely distributed. This is socialism.
Many of the things we ascribe to "human nature" stem from material conditions, not from some intrinsic drive. We know that scarcity plays a role in fostering greed in humans. We know that because of our understanding of how many hunter-gatherer societies work, as well as early agricultural societies like the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture. When needs are met, there is little inherent need for status and wealth accumulation. When things are scarce and need to be exchanged or claimed, hierarchies develop. Societies are based on mankind's attempts at harnessing production. Change the mode of production and you begin to change how society operates.
Get money out of politics. Simple.
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