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Old 12-01-2017, 06:59 AM
 
14,385 posts, read 7,092,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
In other words you're saying to people "my mind is made up don't confuse me with the facts"...
Facts show that blacks are more likely to be underemployed and unemployed than whites regardless of educational background or even criminal background.

So the facts show all of you who believe that unqualified black people are taking jobs from qualified white people, your beliefs are fantasies and outright lies.
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Old 12-01-2017, 07:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SparklesNShine View Post
It goes both ways. Blacks with lower tests scores on the civil service exam get hired over whites all the time because departments have to fill quotas.
Blacks in government positions are overrepresented so they are not hired to fill quotas since there is no low amount of blacks in government.

Will note that for the company that I worked for that I mentioned above, we had a lot of black employees, more than white employees. And due to that we went out of our way to recruit white people. It was hard because at our company everyone had to pass a drug screen to get a job. I had to tell many white people who we had tentatively hired that they could not work for us because they failed the drug screens, usually for meth, marijuana, cocaine, or heroin. Again, it was mind boggling to me that whites used so many drugs who were middle to upper class and highly educated (this is not common for higher income classes of blacks BTW). It was sad to me.

This made it very difficult for us to have a more diverse workforce in our region. Our corporate region had no problem with finding qualified white people who could pass a drug screen in their geographical area so they were more diverse, but down south we had issues with it.

Ironically I was also speaking to a friend of mine recently who is black and who owns a general contracting business and he was complaining about how all of the white guys he hires, he finds out are drug addicts and he was asking me about vocational training programs in our inner city, majority black schools because the black guys were less likely to be on heroin in our area, which is true. He wants to hire some kids out of the high school program and would rather just teach them how to do the job than hire all these so-called "qualified" white guys who are drug addicts and unreliable and safety hazards on the job.
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Old 12-01-2017, 07:17 AM
Status: "Finally Done With C-D BYE BYE" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,479,043 times
Reputation: 15430
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Facts show that blacks are more likely to be underemployed and unemployed than whites regardless of educational background or even criminal background.

So the facts show all of you who believe that unqualified black people are taking jobs from qualified white people, your beliefs are fantasies and outright lies.
No, I've been very clear in what I've been saying which is that there are documented cases where standards have been lowered so more blacks and/or women can pass them AND I provided proof of same.
That is a FACT and just because you don't like it or it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't make it a lie.
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Old 12-01-2017, 07:26 AM
 
14,385 posts, read 7,092,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Civil Service Exam. There is no longer a mandatory single civil service exam to cover all federal jobs. Most jobs with the federal government do not require written tests or exams. Certain agencies may require testing for certain positions, but this is uncommon.Aug 10, 2017
Find a Federal Government Job | USAGov

https://www.usa.gov/government-jobs





"Blacks with lower tests scores on the civil service exam get hired over whites all the time because departments have to fill quotas"

As I said in an earlier post, my uncle was in charge of giving the exam and it was abolished complete after many blacks still could not pass the "new" exam created just for them.

And this was back at least 15, maybe more, years ago.
I agree with most of this, for the guys who seem to think that federal contractors are required to give a test, please see above.

In regards to your uncle and a "new" exam for blacks, that is also false. The original Civil Service exam was actually abolished in the 1970s, not 15 years ago. It was claimed to be discriminatory against blacks and Latinos. After that, they went to testing for specific departments and as you noted, not everyone was required to take a test. The exam actually has restarted though a few years ago and since then there has not been any issues with it.

From the Washington Post - For federal-worker hopefuls, the civil service exam is making a comeback 2015

From the article:
Quote:
The original civil service test was thrown out by the Nixon administration after a lawsuit in 1972 claimed it was biased because black and Latino applicants did not score as well. A new test was developed, but those groups continued to score poorly. After another discrimination case, the Carter administration signed a consent decree in 1981 agreeing to abolish it.
Also:

Quote:
While the government has continued to test for the foreign service and law enforcement jobs such as border patrol agents and transportation security screeners, most applicants who make it past the initial screening do so based on résumés, self-assessments and a measure of luck.
Note, that the exam came back under Obama's administration, but it was updated with technology of course

Quote:
After 34 years, they’re bringing back the civil service exam.
Even as the government is reaching back to the days before the Internet to revive testing, the exam being rolled out is wholly modern. Three dozen agencies across the government — including Defense, Justice and Health and Human Services — have begun using online tests to screen applicants for some jobs and promote senior employees.
The new generation of exams, called USA Hire, uses animated avatars and videos to simulate challenges that could confront employees, testing their reasoning and problem-solving skills. Advances in technology allow the tests to scale questions; a correct answer leads to a harder question and an incorrect one rachets down to an easier option. Scoring is instantaneous, an advance that can quickly winnow the pool of applicants.
Note that local governments and state governments have always had their own examination process so that federal guidelines and non-use of an exam doesn't mean that local municipalities, counties/parishes, or states didn't have their own tests for government positions. Most have some sort of exam for lower level, union employees especially. I've also worked in state and local government and I've never had to take an exam since I was in management and executive level. When you are at that level, you are not a union employee in most states/local areas and so you don't have to take a test unless you work in the fire or police departments (i.e. safety department).

Local and state contractors are not requires to take a test and neither are their employees.
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Old 12-01-2017, 07:32 AM
 
14,385 posts, read 7,092,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
No, I've been very clear in what I've been saying which is that there are documented cases where standards have been lowered so more blacks and/or women can pass them AND I provided proof of same.
That is a FACT and just because you don't like it or it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't make it a lie.
Where are these documented cases at?

You have provided no facts.

Facts are what I stated - that blacks are unemployed and underemployed at twice the rate of whites in this country and have been for 40 years regardless of education, experience/background.

So you believing that blacks are being "given" jobs over whites is a fantasy.
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:37 AM
Status: "Finally Done With C-D BYE BYE" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,479,043 times
Reputation: 15430
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Where are these documented cases at?

You have provided no facts.

Facts are what I stated - that blacks are unemployed and underemployed at twice the rate of whites in this country and have been for 40 years regardless of education, experience/background.

So you believing that blacks are being "given" jobs over whites is a fantasy.
Try using your back arrow or perform a search of this very thread. Of course, if it's not too hard for you to do.
BTW, I never said "blacks are being given jobs over whites" those are our words.
Nice try though...
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:32 AM
 
14,385 posts, read 7,092,380 times
Reputation: 7426
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Try using your back arrow or perform a search of this very thread. Of course, if it's not too hard for you to do.
BTW, I never said "blacks are being given jobs over whites" those are our words.
Nice try though...
Various persons in the thread have said that blacks who are unqualified are "given" jobs over qualified white people...

Facts show this is not true.

ETA: I went back and saw all your links and none of them were definitive about anything except the woman who failed the physical test for NYFD. Also most of them were almost 10 or greater than 10 years old and focus solely on fire and/or police department jobs - not all jobs and especially not government contracting jobs which the other posters said you had to take a test for. Most people do not work for the fire and police departments and only police departments have issues with recruiting black employees. That has more to do with blacks not wanting to be police officers today who are higher quality applicants versus anything else because of our demographic's negative view of police (FWIW, I am always encouraging those who have the temperament and the aptitude I know to consider police work who are black and young people but many of them want nothing to do with PDs). I remember the DOJ issues in Dayton. It is never black people who are asking standards to be lowered, it is whites who think we are too dumb to be police officers instead of realizing that a large percentage of us just don't want to be police officers. Fire departments do not have the issues that PDs have because they are not viewed as negatively by blacks in America as PDs are - that's a fact as well and one that many of the people who run PDs just won't admit or acknowledge it seems. It is not that we are dumb, we just don't want to work for you anymore in large numbers. And again, to me that is sad and IMO the PDs need to do some more community outreach and better, positive community engagement with black neighborhoods if they want qualified black people to consider being employed with their department. I work with a lot of black kids and none of them want to be a police officer. Quite a few want to be firemen or EMTs or some other position in public service, but not PD. When you have a negative view in a community, you will only attract desperate people who probably aren't qualified for much of anything anyway and even the average amongst that group can just go to the military without much hassle instead of being a police officer.

Last edited by residinghere2007; 12-01-2017 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:57 PM
 
7,913 posts, read 3,729,368 times
Reputation: 10399
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8won6 View Post
Again, I ask people to actually prove that underqualified blacks are leapfrogging whites upwardly. I have no doubt that companies meet quotas on entry level positions, and many times white women fill that "minority" quota. But as far as going up the ladder, nobody can prove that undeserved blacks are given jobs like that. Like I said, and like it was laid out in the article in the OP, blacks were fairly beating out people, and of course it's going to **** off some people who think blacks are naturally inferior. So the job posting get taken down and they start using nepotism and networking the good jobs amongst themselves (white people). It's real easy to just say, "standards were lowered for blacks", you know you don't really have to prove it, and deep down you know thats not the case. It just burns some people's soul to know a black person is actually out here smarter and working harder than them because it goes against everything they've been taught, so "they must be cheating" or "the standards were lowered for them.
One of the problems with your request for proof, few if any media sources were/are willing to do stories or studies that will open them up to charges of sexism, racism, etc.
But lets start with a few basics.
For example, if the qualifications for a particular job say you must be XYZ, but under consent decrees the city hires minorities/women that do not meet the criteria, isn't that proof enough they will be less qualified than those who meet the criteria?

If you want to see an extreme example, look up the Miami River Cops from a credible source (i.e. not Wiki). There you will find that the cit yof Miami, under a consent decree was hiring police officer candidates with criminal backgrounds, to meet racial quotas. Needless to say, if you put badges on criminals to meet quotas, things are going to go bad,,,,,very bad.
This is but one of many examples of inferior minorities women being hired/promoted/leapfrogged over the last few decades.



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