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Old 11-23-2017, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Long Island
29,603 posts, read 12,379,359 times
Reputation: 6127

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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
I don't remember seeing you complain when Obama increased the debt by 10 trillion in 8 years

in fact many liberals on here(cd) said debt doesn't matter since we are a fiat currency that we own our selves.....hmmmm
That is not true at all, everyone knows we have a debt problem and this just makes it worse while giving large corporations, S corporations and others a tax break. The debt at a percentage of GDP is around 77%, this will put us well over 100% and for what.You are unable to defend a poor proposal so of course its back to "Obama" like rain main.

Search hard to find anyone that supports these ridiculous proposals other than the GOP and Trumps cabinet. They obviously were unable to keep the increase at $1.5 T as required by the Byrd rule for reconciliation, the corporate tax cuts live on for ever but the middle class cuts die in 2023.

Last edited by Goodnight; 11-23-2017 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
20,819 posts, read 41,512,138 times
Reputation: 14054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
That is not true at all, everyone knows we have a debt problem and this just makes it worse while giving large corporations, S corporations and others a tax break. The debt at a percentage of GDP is around 77%, this will put us well over 100% and for what.
Exactly. There is a reason our long-term debt does not command better rates. The world knows we're in trouble and that our Congress is incapable of doing what is necessary to reverse the path we're on. Life and death decisions are politicized. We are on a very slippery slope.

For those actually willing to learn, the following video filmed today has a sane, reasonable, intelligent discussion between conservative and liberal economists - both of whom agree this tax plan will NOT do what is purported - but just the opposite .

About one - hour beginning at about 1:12:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?437614...urnal-11232017

Of course, one needs to listen carefully and comprehend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
You are unable to defend a poor proposal so of course its back to "Obama" like rain main.
Well, facts are uncomfortable. For those not willing to learn, there is always the old stupid, ignorant fallback "whataboutitis."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Search heard to find anyone that supports these ridiculous proposals other than the GOP and Trumps cabinet.
Swamp rats must stick together.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 11-23-2017 at 08:33 PM..
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Little Rock, AR
2,321 posts, read 703,629 times
Reputation: 1390
What a sham topic. Your evidence shows 2027, that's TEN years away. Everyone with a brain knows the tax cuts will be extended before then
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:34 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,271 posts, read 13,019,057 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
That is not true at all, everyone knows we have a debt problem and this just makes it worse while giving large corporations, S corporations and others a tax break. The debt at a percentage of GDP is around 77%, this will put us well over 100% and for what.You are unable to defend a poor proposal so of course its back to "Obama" like rain main.

Search hard to find anyone that supports these ridiculous proposals other than the GOP and Trumps cabinet. They obviously were unable to keep the increase at $1.5 T as required by the Byrd rule for reconciliation, the corporate tax cuts live on for ever but the middle class cuts die in 2023.
the debt is already over 100% of GDP
national debt 20 trillion..... gdp about 18.59 trillion
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,494 posts, read 2,070,841 times
Reputation: 1829
If this is such a good plan, why do the tax cuts for individuals expire in 10 years but the corporate tax cuts are permanent?

And a tax holiday did not work last time (2004) to create new investments which lead to increased job creation. In fact, many companies laid off workers and just used the money to provide a dividend to share holders or for share buy backs, neither of which created jobs.

A specific tax code fix to address foreign earnings should be worked out, not one-time gimmicks that let corporations avoid their tax liabilities.
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,712 posts, read 11,022,659 times
Reputation: 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
What a sham topic. Your evidence shows 2027, that's TEN years away. Everyone with a brain knows the tax cuts will be extended before then
The way the GOP was able to maneuver having the debt increase to "only" $1.5 trillion, is to make the middle class tax cuts expire in 5 years. If they don't expire, the debt is exploded even more than $1.5 trillion said to be added to the debt. Under current law, debt is slated to increase by about $8.5 trillion by 2027. This makes it grow by $10 trillion -- and more if the middle class ones are extended.

If you are so sure the middle-class tax-cuts will be extended, why don't you propose that the middle class tax-cuts be permanent, instead of the upper income ones, and have the upper income tax-cuts expire in 5 years?
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:55 PM
 
19,617 posts, read 7,973,404 times
Reputation: 6504
[quote=workingclasshero;50211584]both tax plans help 95% of lower and middleclass tax payers

it helps small business, and corporations, so they can expand and give raises


its a good plan and helps 95% of taxpayers....why would anyone complain about it[/QUOTE]

Because it hurts teachers and higher education students and gives more to the rich. Why would this new plan prevent teachers from deducting $250 for supplies for their classrooms when corporations would still be allowed to deduct the cost of their supplies.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,712 posts, read 11,022,659 times
Reputation: 5600
The reality is that this plan is indefensible, unless you think that rich people just don't have enough money. The plan slashes taxes for the rich and corporations; increases taxes for the middle class; increases the debt and the economic benefits promised are miniscule at best, according to nonpartisan economic analysis.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,712 posts, read 11,022,659 times
Reputation: 5600
What I forgot was that the Senate plan, by repealing the Obamacare mandate raises health insurance premiums by $2,000, which will make it too expensive for many to afford insurance, all to partially pay for the tax cut on the rich.

GOP tax bill would spike Obamacare premiums nearly $2,000 for families, trigger Medicare cuts
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:53 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,271 posts, read 13,019,057 times
Reputation: 5860
[quote=natalie469;50212035]
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
both tax plans help 95% of lower and middleclass tax payers

it helps small business, and corporations, so they can expand and give raises


its a good plan and helps 95% of taxpayers....why would anyone complain about it[/QUOTE]

Because it hurts teachers and higher education students and gives more to the rich. Why would this new plan prevent teachers from deducting $250 for supplies for their classrooms when corporations would still be allowed to deduct the cost of their supplies.

although I have always thought the $250 deduction is a nice thing...the question is why is it even necessary...

I pay 12k in property taxes... of that the county tax (cops and library is only about 3k) the town tax (school tax) is 9k

we SPEND 23k per pupil here....if we are spending that much per pupil, why do parents and/or teachers need to buy supplies.....why are the schools districts STEALING from the parents and teachers

the deduction is not necessary if the school administrators did their jobs properly

if you are going to complain about the loss of a 250 deduction... then why are you not complaining to the school board...OR ADVOCATING that parents get the same deductible, because they(most) are spending more than the teachers, even though we ALREADY PAYing A SCHOOL TAX
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