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Old 11-25-2017, 07:39 AM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,547 posts, read 34,276,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
A dog will not eat mushrooms or shellfish. I think its just too foreign or they're using instinct not to eat something that may be poisonous. Our dogs have eaten fish, some like carrots, I've even shared grits with our dog.
my dog would gladly eat both mushrooms and shellfish.
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:50 AM
 
11,677 posts, read 5,700,835 times
Reputation: 14063
This is a never ending debate - years ago - when we had food stamps for 3 months - I bought the basics. Chicken, beef, bread, packaged cold cuts, eggs ect... while friends I knew lived high off the hog with lobster, prime rib ect.

I'd rather the program allow the basics with the ability to purchase toilet paper and paper towels. When someone else is paying for your food - that person has every right to say what that money they are giving you can buy. But we'll have those on here who disagree as you've seen. Meanwhile I wonder how many actually give to a food bank to help those who need it as they say.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Ah, yes, the practical considerations.

Imagine the work and cost involved in deciding, one by one, which items would be allowed, and which would not. I've seen proposals that would disallow, for example, steak and seafood. Okay, fine. Does seafood include canned tuna and Mrs. Paul's fish sticks? Does steak mean filet mignon only, or does it include round steak, which is often cheaper than hamburger? What about ground sirloin? Is it okay, because it's ground, or is it forbidden, because it's sirloin? Someone else referred to non-fancy fruit. How does one define "fancy?" Are pineapples fancy when they are on sale for a dollar each, and cheaper than Honeycrisp apples? What about canned pineapple?

Or, I guess we could base the blacklist on cost, on the grounds that it is "simpler." That would be fun, given how much prices can fluctuate from week to week, or even day to day, as items that are about to expire are frequently marked down. I can see it now: store employees racing around every day, updating the list of what can and cannot be purchased with food stamps. The only upside is that it might increase employment, if it didn't halt productivity altogether.

I can see possibly disallowing a few items, like candy, soda, and chips, although even that has its downfalls (What do we do about ingredients that might be made into candy? Do we allow bottled water?) Other than that, implementing all of these wonderful restrictions would be a practical and economic nightmare of epic proportions.
,,, implementing all of these wonderful restrictions would be a practical and economic nightmare of epic proportions?

Hypothetically, when all retailers are using computer based registers connected to servers the gov't would send a single list of UPCs to everyone which ones are not allowed to be used by EBT users. I've already seen it in action at Food Lion where the customer in front of me had certain items dinged as not allowable per their database. Thus the software and databases are already out there. Those items were pulled and set aside. The customer paid cash for those items with cash (pulled out a wad of cash to do so ). Thus you are incorrect for that statement. Hypothetical will turn into reality at some time in the future.

The reality is already is in existence in some states. It's already in place in VA under the WIC program. Participants are given a list of retailers (and locations) that they can shop at in order to get benefits.

Women, Infants and Children | WIC – Virginia Department of Health – VDHLiveWell

See approved foods:
http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/content/...odBenefits.pdf
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:19 AM
 
8,085 posts, read 5,223,998 times
Reputation: 22685
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
And that's the problem. People trade their ebt for cash and they are used to buy soda and other junk foods for dishonest store owners. Example ebt is worth $500. Dishonest owner of EBT card sells it for $300 cash to dishonest small store owner. That person takes it to Walmart buys soda with it to stock his shelves.
There should be limits on what it can be used for. Our charity should not be so easily abused.
Nevermind the owners...Search Facebook for "Food stamps/stamps for sale" it's everywhere. They get .50 on the dollar. Some will even ask you in the grocery store "hey I'll pay for your groceries for the cash."

Abuse is not rare.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:24 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
....

Luckily, there is President Trump who is planning common sense welfare reform after his middle-class tax cuts that will make the tax system much more simple and easy to understand.
Yet while Trump is planning, Obama's increases in benefits go into effect in 2018.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:28 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,666,305 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
And that's the problem. People trade their ebt for cash and they are used to buy soda and other junk foods for dishonest store owners. Example ebt is worth $500. Dishonest owner of EBT card sells it for $300 cash to dishonest small store owner. That person takes it to Walmart buys soda with it to stock his shelves.
There should be limits on what it can be used for. Our charity should not be so easily abused.
There is a program in place already, but we all know how fast implementation of anything the gov't does is.

https://www.fns.usda.gov/pressrelease/2013/fns-001213

Quote:
“USDA has a zero tolerance policy on fraud, and we continue to strengthen our anti-fraud tactics to identify and exclude bad actors. More than any other factor, we know that the change in the trafficking rate is being driven by the growth in the number of smaller retailers where trafficking occurs at ten times the rate of larger grocery stores and supermarkets,” said Concannon. “And while the vast majority of retailers and participants are honest, exploring enhanced retailer requirements reaffirms our commitment to ensuring that everyone plays by the rules.”
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:13 AM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,422,685 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Heh, it sure would be, if only it was true.

I'm not claiming abuse never happens, but I don't think it is nearly as common as some people on here are claiming.
What I think may be the more core issue is that many middle class people observing those on food stamps, selectively see that the poor are getting free stuff that they themselves have to work so hard for. i.e. A fairness issue.

If I were king I would engage a system where there are more food exclusions. Luxury and unhealthy. As mentioned I think technology can be applied to audit this without a huge bureaucracy. I would also give the middle class food stamps.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:16 AM
 
3,276 posts, read 2,106,442 times
Reputation: 5074
Total SNAP cost 2016: $70.9 Billion.
Total SNAP fraud (gov't estimate): 1.3%, or $900 Million annually.

Total Medicare + Medicaid cost 2015: $960 Billion.
Total Medicare + Medicaid fraud estimates by the American Medical Association were 3%(low), 6%(mid), and 10%(high) in a 2012 report. Assuming these percentages are unchanged we get:
  • 3% = $28.8 Billion in fraud
  • 6% = $57.6 Billion in fraud
  • 10% = $96 Billion in fraud
Now, fraud is bad whenever and wherever it occurs. But lets be real when we allocate our outrage, folks:

  • A minority of disproportionately under-educated, poor, or disabled individuals, are costing the taxpayers $900 Million in fraudulent waste annually.
  • A minority of disproportionately well-educated, non-poor individuals, are costing the taxpayers between $28.8 Billion and $96 Billion in fraudulent waste annually.
It is pretty easy to see which of the above two forms of fraud is objectively worse. What is not easy to see is why topics of outrage regarding the fleecing of taxpayers appear limited almost exclusively to those that target SNAP recipients.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:19 AM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,422,685 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Ah, yes, the practical considerations.

Imagine the work and cost involved in deciding, one by one, which items would be allowed, and which would not. I've seen proposals that would disallow, for example, steak and seafood. Okay, fine. Does seafood include canned tuna and Mrs. Paul's fish sticks? Does steak mean filet mignon only, or does it include round steak, which is often cheaper than hamburger? What about ground sirloin? Is it okay, because it's ground, or is it forbidden, because it's sirloin? Someone else referred to non-fancy fruit. How does one define "fancy?" Are pineapples fancy when they are on sale for a dollar each, and cheaper than Honeycrisp apples? What about canned pineapple?

Or, I guess we could base the blacklist on cost, on the grounds that it is "simpler." That would be fun, given how much prices can fluctuate from week to week, or even day to day, as items that are about to expire are frequently marked down. I can see it now: store employees racing around every day, updating the list of what can and cannot be purchased with food stamps. The only upside is that it might increase employment, if it didn't halt productivity altogether.

I can see possibly disallowing a few items, like candy, soda, and chips, although even that has its downfalls (What do we do about ingredients that might be made into candy? Do we allow bottled water?) Other than that, implementing all of these wonderful restrictions would be a practical and economic nightmare of epic proportions.
I do believe that much of this this can be incorporated into the IR bar code.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:24 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,392,179 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
America's seniors and physically disabled deserve EBT.

https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/how-much-could-i-receive

Many younger adults in poverty have large families and if they are married with 5 kids they can receive over $12,000 a year in food stamps just for having large families when poor.
The recipients with kids are usually unmarried - getting married usually disqualifies them from food stamps because hubby makes too much money. By staying unmarried, baby daddy's income doesn't count.
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