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Old 11-26-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,230,640 times
Reputation: 1858

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
None of these things are even crimes.
For Paul Manafort it is since he failed to register as an agent of a foreign principal. He was indicted for that.

Mike Flynn and Jared Kushner also failed to register as an agent of a foreign principal, updating their declarations a few times. At minimum, that leaves them to being indicted for the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
Besides, don't you understand that if a Russian lawyer showed up and said, "we have damaging info about the Clintons", that pretty much PROVES there was no "collusion" since the information already existed. In reality they didn't have any information in the first place - it was a lie/trick done purely to create a pretext for this future witchhunt against Trump.
Manafort, Trump Jr. and Kushner are open to conspiring to circumvent campaign finance laws by attempting obtain an illegal contribution from a foreign government - the information was something of value.
They were told the information was from the Russian government yet they still met with the people offering it knowing this.
I have no idea why you think that a Russian lawyer showing up and offering damaging info about the Clintons does not mean there was no collusion just because the information had previously existed. The fact that matters is that Manafort, Trump Jr. and Kushner did not know the information existed and that they did not have it, but they wanted it. Which is why they agreed to a meeting with the Russians and why Trump Jr. said he "would love it. If itís what you say I love it especially later in the summer".

That is the essence of conspiracy. Working with another person, or team of people to break/circumvent the law. It does not matter if the information existed or not. The salient fact is that thought it did and they acted with that intent by meeting to find out more information.

Want a real life example? Ask anyone who has ever been arrested for soliciting an undercover officer for some illegal activity that person thought that the undercover officer could provide. The undercover officer had had no intent to provide the service (sex, robbery, murder for hire), but the person arrested acted with the intent that the undercover officer could do what they asked.

 
Old 11-26-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,868 posts, read 22,713,867 times
Reputation: 7167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
For Paul Manafort it is since he failed to register as an agent of a foreign principal. He was indicted for that.

Mike Flynn and Jared Kushner also failed to register as an agent of a foreign principal, updating their declarations a few times. At minimum, that leaves them to being indicted for the same thing.



Manafort, Trump Jr. and Kushner are open to conspiring to circumvent campaign finance laws by attempting obtain an illegal contribution from a foreign government - the information was something of value.
They were told the information was from the Russian government yet they still met with the people offering it knowing this.
I have no idea why you think that a Russian lawyer showing up and offering damaging info about the Clintons does not mean there was no collusion just because the information had previously existed. The fact that matters is that Manafort, Trump Jr. and Kushner did not know the information existed and that they did not have it, but they wanted it. Which is why they agreed to a meeting with the Russians and why Trump Jr. said he "would love it. If itís what you say I love it especially later in the summer".

That is the essence of conspiracy. Working with another person, or team of people to break/circumvent the law. It does not matter if the information existed or not. The salient fact is that thought it did and they acted with that intent by meeting to find out more information.

Want a real life example? Ask anyone who has ever been arrested for soliciting an undercover officer for some illegal activity that person thought that the undercover officer could provide. The undercover officer had had no intent to provide the service (sex, robbery, murder for hire), but the person arrested acted with the intent that the undercover officer could do what they asked.
Yup. EXACTLY right. Even ATTEMPTING to commit a crime IS A CRIME.
Donny Jr, Jared Manafort and others in the Trump campaign - including the Great Pumpkin himself Attempted to collude with the Russians to gain valuable info on Hillary. THAT is a crime - whether they got the info they wanted or not.

Trump is toast - for committing a number of crimes

Ken.
 
Old 11-26-2017, 11:15 AM
 
8,655 posts, read 2,688,214 times
Reputation: 5310
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
I'm betting that IF Trump is found having to do anything with Russia or any other scandal his followers still won't believe it. Even if trump admitted it they would still be in denial.
Even if he admitted it, he'd turn around and deny it.
 
Old 11-26-2017, 11:43 AM
 
5,908 posts, read 1,989,443 times
Reputation: 5548
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Yup. EXACTLY right. Even ATTEMPTING to commit a crime IS A CRIME.
Donny Jr, Jared Manafort and others in the Trump campaign - including the Great Pumpkin himself Attempted to collude with the Russians to gain valuable info on Hillary. THAT is a crime - whether they got the info they wanted or not.

Trump is toast - for committing a number of crimes

Ken.
If the Russians claimed they already possessed "valuable info" on Hillary, then there can't have been any conspiring to obtain said information.

And what is this "Crime" to which you keep referring? Can you cite the US Code section that you think any of these activities fall under?
 
Old 11-26-2017, 11:48 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,868 posts, read 22,713,867 times
Reputation: 7167
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
If the Russians claimed they already possessed "valuable info" on Hillary, then there can't have been any conspiring to obtain said information.

And what is this "Crime" to which you keep referring? Can you cite the US Code section that you think any of these activities fall under?
Conspiracy, Obstruction of Justice - and I suspect Mueller will find evidence of a number of financial crimes as well (there's reasons Trump won't disclose his financial info). I'm more than willing to wait to see what else falls out.



Ken
 
Old 11-26-2017, 12:00 PM
 
37,775 posts, read 14,687,393 times
Reputation: 24089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
...
That is the essence of conspiracy. Working with another person, or team of people to break/circumvent the law. It does not matter if the information existed or not. The salient fact is that thought it did and they acted with that intent by meeting to find out more information.

Want a real life example? Ask anyone who has ever been arrested for soliciting an undercover officer for some illegal activity that person thought that the undercover officer could provide. The undercover officer had had no intent to provide the service (sex, robbery, murder for hire), but the person arrested acted with the intent that the undercover officer could do what they asked.
Conspiring with another person(s) to circumvent/break the law is a crime. Regardless of the numerous "collusion is not a crime" posts, conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime.

Obstruction of justice, even if it ends up not working, is still a crime.

I'm pretty sure Mueller has this straight.
 
Old 11-26-2017, 12:14 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,868 posts, read 22,713,867 times
Reputation: 7167
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Conspiring with another person(s) to circumvent/break the law is a crime. Regardless of the numerous "collusion is not a crime" posts, conspiracy to commit a crime is still a crime.

Obstruction of justice, even if it ends up not working, is still a crime.

I'm pretty sure Mueller has this straight.
Yup. Mueller has it right - start at the bottom, turning people on the way to the top. Mueller is good at it - even Republicans (as Mueller is himself) are well aware of that - which is why so many Trump minions are desperate to try and discredit him. If Trump did something illegal - which I'm pretty sure he did - Mueller will get him. Trump claims to be so smart, but he's an arrogant idiot - and Mueller is running rings around him.
Trump is in BIG trouble - and so are the people around him.
Pass the popcorn.

Ken
 
Old 11-26-2017, 12:29 PM
 
4,987 posts, read 1,981,519 times
Reputation: 2240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
One day after Trump's election, Konstantin Rykov made a Facebook post where he spoke of efforts involving the role of Russian hacking and collusion between Wikileaks and Cambridge Analytica. One curious issue: information about the WikiLeak-Cambridge connection wasn't released to the public until months later. Clearly Rykov had intimate insider knowledge.

And, at the same time, Rykov got a private DM from Donald Trump himself. Obviously then Trump and Rykov were on close terms.

To quote Congressman Garamendi, "what was once drip, drip, drip is now an open faucet."

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/1...in-plain-sight

Uhmmm...Twitter didn't add pictures over DM until Dec. 2013. How could Trump send one in Nov. 2012???

Twitter Users Can Now Send, Receive Images in Direct Messages
 
Old 11-26-2017, 01:49 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,196 posts, read 13,957,979 times
Reputation: 6455
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
All of Trumpís Russia Ties, in 7 Charts

Is there anyone in the White House who didn't meet with Russian officials?
the question is during the last two admins (trump and Obama) is there anyone who didn't meet with the Russians

Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak appeared at least 22 times on Obama White House visitors logs.
 
Old 11-26-2017, 02:03 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
19,868 posts, read 22,713,867 times
Reputation: 7167
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
the question is during the last two admins (trump and Obama) is there anyone who didn't meet with the Russians

Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak appeared at least 22 times on Obama White House visitors logs.
The difference is Obama didn't ask the Russians to find dirt on his political opponent - and the Russians didn't respond by actually doing so.

Trump/Putin 2016

Ken
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