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Old 11-27-2017, 01:24 PM
 
6,930 posts, read 2,473,969 times
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Here’s a poll that could have some impact on whether the bill passes the Senate.

The bill is extremely unpopular in the home states of 4 key Republican Senators.


Susan Collins (Maine) 22%
Bob Corker (Tennessee) 30%
Jeff Flake/John McCain (Arizona) 26%


https://americansfortaxfairness.org/...h-11-21-17.pdf
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,167 posts, read 26,111,610 times
Reputation: 11667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
Here’s a poll that could have some impact on whether the bill passes the Senate.

The bill is extremely unpopular in the home states of 4 key Republican Senators.


Susan Collins (Maine) 22%
Bob Corker (Tennessee) 30%
Jeff Flake/John McCain (Arizona) 26%


https://americansfortaxfairness.org/...h-11-21-17.pdf
This is sort of a win-win situation for Democrats. The more civic-minded part of me wants it to fail since virtually every prominent economist is on the record saying it won't spur economic growth but will result in a widened budget deficit. The jerkier part of me agrees with Pelosi. Let them pass their bill and suffer mass extinction wipeouts in 2018. This is a politically dumb bill.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Location: NJ
16,813 posts, read 11,751,308 times
Reputation: 10809
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
1 yep they are. reducing tax rates on income increases my profit retention.

2 I suggest you read it, it is all there, but the short answer is spending in not being addressed in a meaningful way, other than setting up to attack spending a year or two down the road when tax revenues fall.

3 wrong. it is simple math to target any one section while mitigating it's impact elsewhere, simple example decreases taxes on income under 100k while increasing it the same amount on income over 200k or 300k . so you are plainly wrong

4 easy reform does not equal reduction, you made a logic error. and you can reform taxes in many ways that are revenue neutral or not. your point makes zero sense.

CBO is non partisan and has always been considered non partisan even by the Rs until jan 20th 2017. when it was clear they needed to attack it in order to dispute it's scores for ACA and later taxes..
CBO is charged with garbage in garbage out, meaning they do not question the numbers they get, they just run them, errors, false assumptions and all.... that's why the CBO is frequently far off base in its results.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:29 PM
 
10,691 posts, read 13,617,295 times
Reputation: 6194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
I can't believe some of the pollls I'm seeing showing a majority disapproval of the plan. These people are against keeping more money in their pocket, essentially open to giving the government more money to waste with a smile on their face. Republicans are doing a terrible job with messaging but overall it's shaping up to be a great bill.

I've always predicted Flake, Corker and McCain to team up to derail the trump agenda, it doesn't have to be those exact 3 but my money is on Republicans obstructing it to spite Trump. We'll know by weeks end.
Majority disapprove because it hurts more people than it helps, period. This tax plan is a big corp big money windfall and provides little benefit to most American, and lays hurt to many others.

Guys like Bannon realize that if this goes into effect, 2 years from now at tax time, you will have a huge up-swell of anti-right wing sentiment because you will have middle class people getting hosed who thought Trump actual gave a damn about them.


All of a sudden all the BS about PC Transgender this and whatever else you see on Drudge/Limbaugh/Hannity et al, that so many middle Americans see as team sports, will finally hit said people in the face with the hard reality of who the GOP base really is.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,167 posts, read 26,111,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
CBO is charged with garbage in garbage out, meaning they do not question the numbers they get, they just run them, errors, false assumptions and all.... that's why the CBO is frequently far off base in its results.
Analyzing a tax bill is more of a straightforward, though by no means easy, analysis. The tax cut will result in a budget deficit. To say otherwise would be akin to lowering dues for a club and saying that you'll have the same amount of money. Determining the scope of which middle class families gets tax hikes and which get tax cuts is a more complicated matter. But then the question becomes why, as a Republican, you would favor any tax plan that raises taxes on any middle class families? If the political will existed in the GOP to cut taxes for all middle class families, no exceptions, it could be done. That will doesn't exist because they are doing this for rich donors.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Little Rock, AR
2,905 posts, read 903,248 times
Reputation: 1800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
Here’s a poll that could have some impact on whether the bill passes the Senate.

The bill is extremely unpopular in the home states of 4 key Republican Senators.


Susan Collins (Maine) 22%
Bob Corker (Tennessee) 30%
Jeff Flake/John McCain (Arizona) 26%


https://americansfortaxfairness.org/...h-11-21-17.pdf
I'm sorry, I have a problem believing voters in TN and AZ oppose paying less in taxes. This sounds fishy, polls have been massively wrong before, just go back 12 months. Just read that many of these articles are quoting polls from Hart Research Associates, a democratic pollster and pushed by liberal advocacy group Americans for Tax Fairness. Why am I not surprised

What's funny is many Dems were all for corporate tax cuts years ago, now they say it will cause the sky to fall. Jokers
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,167 posts, read 26,111,610 times
Reputation: 11667
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
Majority disapprove because it hurts more people than it helps, period. This tax plan is a big corp big money windfall and provides little benefit to most American, and lays hurt to many others.

Guys like Bannon realize that if this goes into effect, 2 years from now at tax time, you will have a huge up-swell of anti-right wing sentiment because you will have middle class people getting hosed who thought Trump actual gave a damn about them.


All of a sudden all the BS about PC Transgender this and whatever else you see on Drudge/Limbaugh/Hannity et al, that so many middle Americans see as team sports, will finally hit said people in the face with the hard reality of who the GOP base really is.
Passage of the bill would be great news for Bannon since he wants to break the Establishment and start a Third Party.

Most GOP/Trump voters support the GOP for cultural reasons. In other words, they want Trump to rain down destruction on liberals and make them cry. They are largely indifferent to a lot of GOP tax and economic policy so long as the GOP and Trump continue to make liberals cry. That's why Trump could spout off all types of liberal talking points ("Healthcare for everybody and the government's gonna pay for it!") without a single voter batting an eye. They are mostly unconcerned with policy. But Bannon can steal these voters away from the GOP by waging war against BLM and Kaepernick while simultaneously supporting more populist policy positions.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,167 posts, read 26,111,610 times
Reputation: 11667
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
What's funny is many Dems were all for corporate tax cuts years ago, now they say it will cause the sky to fall. Jokers
You guys are completely contradicting yourselves. First, you guys were saying that Democrats have never supported cutting taxes and always want to raise taxes. Now you're saying that Democrats were for corporate tax cuts all along until the GOP presented this tax plan in 2017.

Which is it? Democrats are either tax and spend liberals or they're not. Can't be both.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:53 PM
 
9,902 posts, read 3,249,364 times
Reputation: 7251
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Analyzing a tax bill is more of a straightforward, though by no means easy, analysis. The tax cut will result in a budget deficit. To say otherwise would be akin to lowering dues for a club and saying that you'll have the same amount of money. Determining the scope of which middle class families gets tax hikes and which get tax cuts is a more complicated matter. But then the question becomes why, as a Republican, you would favor any tax plan that raises taxes on any middle class families? If the political will existed in the GOP to cut taxes for all middle class families, no exceptions, it could be done. That will doesn't exist because they are doing this for rich donors.
It really is amazing that folks like Koch, Mercer and so many others want to lower the quality of life for tens of millions in order get a little richer.

the utility value of these dollars is huge to a family earning 0-100k . While the utility value of those dollars is almost zero to the very rich.


Furthermore this plan is kicking off an international round of tax cuts for corps. a number of nations are looking at and discussing how they will react to any US corp tax cuts.

That would make pointless, and would end up just enriching the corps while impoverishing millions of americans for nothing.

There will be no pay increase, no new jobs no retained jobs. Because if we go to 20% everyone else will drop enough to make it mean nothing.
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:01 PM
 
9,902 posts, read 3,249,364 times
Reputation: 7251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
I'm sorry, I have a problem believing voters in TN and AZ oppose paying less in taxes. This sounds fishy, polls have been massively wrong before, just go back 12 months. Just read that many of these articles are quoting polls from Hart Research Associates, a democratic pollster and pushed by liberal advocacy group Americans for Tax Fairness. Why am I not surprised

What's funny is many Dems were all for corporate tax cuts years ago, now they say it will cause the sky to fall. Jokers
Bull about 5 years ago obama brought up cutting Corp rates to 28% BUT directly tying it to closing out loopholes, or not doing it at all.

Obama tying it to closing the loopholes at the SAME TIME was the whole reason it got nowhere.


The Trump/Goldman sach tax plan we are talking about now goes to 20% AND does NOT close loopholes, deductions etc.

Obama was trying to "reform" corp taxes and maintain Revenues. Trump is just giving a massive tax break, far lower rate and keeps deductions and keeps loopholes.

Big big difference, big big one.
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