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View Poll Results: Would you vote for the GOP if the senate Tax plan passes?
Yes because Businesses are people too. 4 14.29%
No because it is an unfair tax and raises the national debt 20 71.43%
Yes because I will be fine. 4 14.29%
No because my children who have mortgages and kids will suffer 0 0%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-27-2017, 08:27 PM
 
3,036 posts, read 1,692,706 times
Reputation: 3431

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Sorry about the typo on the title. can't fix it now.

There is no serious rebuttal to the fact that the new tax plan will screw the middleclass and the poor, the deduction for the rest of us will disappear while the rich and the corporations keep theirs forever .
If it passes how would you feel about the party that just raised your taxes and took away your deductions?

 
Old 11-28-2017, 08:42 AM
 
2,952 posts, read 1,610,317 times
Reputation: 5292
Like that you included Yes, I will be fine as an option.

Could of voted that way, in fact I'll be more than fine. But we live in a society and are suppose to help each other in times of need.

I have no schildren, but I want the world I used to have for my nieces and nephews. Clean Water, safe air, not worried about safety when leaving the house, etc.

The lower the debt we pass on, the better future generations will be.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 09:25 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
9,634 posts, read 7,963,319 times
Reputation: 4031
Was wondering what GPO stood for.

No. Dont vote for either party any more. They are both examples of the worst humans alive.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 10:18 AM
 
25,975 posts, read 8,824,030 times
Reputation: 9047
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Sorry about the typo on the title. can't fix it now.

There is no serious rebuttal to the fact that the new tax plan will screw the middleclass and the poor, the deduction for the rest of us will disappear while the rich and the corporations keep theirs forever .
If it passes how would you feel about the party that just raised your taxes and took away your deductions?
We don't even know what the tax bill will be yet. That's one reason why the fear tactics don't work on reasonable thinking people.
As the tax bill issues are being described now I'm not impressed that they give the middleclass a huge break. However, the economy should boom and there will be benefit to that for everyone. I don't believe in trickle down.
It can't screw the poor who don't pay federal tax anyway. They would save money just by being able to do their return on one, easy to understand, page. No one should get back more than they have paid in and should have a SSN to be paid anything, which eliminates fraud by illegals, some of which don't even live in the country.
As it is now, I don't like it, but would vote for it because it is better for the country than what we have now.

Didn't vote in the poll because its limited and narrow just as it was designed to be. Wants to prove a negative.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,505,170 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
We don't even know what the tax bill will be yet. That's one reason why the fear tactics don't work on reasonable thinking people.
As the tax bill issues are being described now I'm not impressed that they give the middleclass a huge break. However, the economy should boom and there will be benefit to that for everyone. I don't believe in trickle down.
It can't screw the poor who don't pay federal tax anyway. They would save money just by being able to do their return on one, easy to understand, page. No one should get back more than they have paid in and should have a SSN to be paid anything, which eliminates fraud by illegals, some of which don't even live in the country.
As it is now, I don't like it, but would vote for it because it is better for the country than what we have now.

Didn't vote in the poll because its limited and narrow just as it was designed to be. Wants to prove a negative.
Well, we have a pretty good idea of what the House and Senate want because it's in black and white printed in the Congressional Record.

While you pedal the same nonsense that tax cuts result in miraculous economic growth, the experts who analyzed this bill said that it won't.

The current plan calls for partially raising taxes on the middle class to pay for tax cuts for the rich and corporations. Those earning less than $10,000 get a huge increase. The rest will be added to the debt. That's what is on the table and every group that looked at said it raises taxes on everyone but the rich, who get a cut.

How should we evaluate Republican tax plan? You might think this was obvious: analyze the bill as written. But some are saying that this is unfair, because the middle-class tax increases in the legislation won't really happen. As a reminder, the way the bill works is this: tax increases on middle and lower incomes to pay for corporate tax cuts, but a bunch of temporary measures that offset the middle-class hikes for the first few years, then expire.

The expiration dates are there for a reason: to keep the deficit impact of the bill in its first decade down, and make it zero in the second decade to bypass the filibuster. So as written, the long run impact is captured by the 2027 effects.

But, some say, Congress won't really let those tax breaks expire, so it's "disingenuous" to analyze the bill Republicans are actually trying to pass. That's a very strange position, in multiple ways.

For one thing, surely politicians need to be held accountable for what they actually do, not what you imagine they might do in the future. Furthermore, it's by no means clear that they will keep those middle-class breaks. Nobody knows. And if we're going to talk about projections of what you think is going to happen, not what they actually wrote, then you have to include likely effects on spending: huge tax cuts that increase the deficit will have to be offset somehow.

And any reasonable guess at those spending cuts makes the bill just as bad for the middle class as those expiring tax breaks. You can't have it both ways -- insist that we ignore the actual language of the bill, and also that we ignore its likely consequences.

The whole thing is puzzling. We really can't ignore the rawness of Republican top-down class war; they're still looking for ways to make people like Ryan seem less cynical than they are.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
11,563 posts, read 8,104,051 times
Reputation: 20013
Where is the Republican Nancy Pelosi that famously said about Obama care " We need to pass it to find out what is in it"...

Tax reform is under the microscope just like everything Trump proposes and the spin is all negative as expected.


Death and Taxes are a certain but there are many different ways to die just like there are many different ways to be taxed. I suspect that with this new plan we will see some exemptions fade away while others come to light and in the end if we can all save a bit then that is a good plan.
Of course I would like to see DC stop wasting so much of our money and they be forced to live within a budget like so many of us do.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,425 posts, read 8,733,037 times
Reputation: 7731
Since when does the left worry about national debt? https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ion-national-/ Oh I forgot, when a member of the pachyderm party is the POTUS.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 11:38 AM
 
5,721 posts, read 5,440,162 times
Reputation: 3604
I will probably sit out of the 2018 midterms because the GOP congress has been just awful and the Democrats donít offer a better alternative. But I will definitely support Trumpís re-election no matter what:
 
Old 11-28-2017, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,497 posts, read 43,702,024 times
Reputation: 14987
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
We don't even know what the tax bill will be yet. That's one reason why the fear tactics don't work on reasonable thinking people.
As the tax bill issues are being described now I'm not impressed that they give the middleclass a huge break. However, the economy should boom and there will be benefit to that for everyone. I don't believe in trickle down.
It can't screw the poor who don't pay federal tax anyway. They would save money just by being able to do their return on one, easy to understand, page. No one should get back more than they have paid in and should have a SSN to be paid anything, which eliminates fraud by illegals, some of which don't even live in the country.
As it is now, I don't like it, but would vote for it because it is better for the country than what we have now.

Didn't vote in the poll because its limited and narrow just as it was designed to be. Wants to prove a negative.
Generally horse hockey - as usual - to wit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
We don't even know what the tax bill will be yet.
Horse hockey - of course we know what's in it. What major component do you think will be removed? So you think the $1.5Trillion deficit spending will somehow be offset - LEGITIMATELY? Instead of with pie-in-the-sky predictions on expansion which will not occur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
That's one reason why the fear tactics don't work on reasonable thinking people.
You have a very odd definition of reasonable thinking when you choose to ignore history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
However, the economy should boom and there will be benefit to that for everyone. I don't believe in trickle down.
The economy is doing just fine. If anything, this tax bill, after a sugar high, will cause a slowdown.

Further, your statement is an oxymoron. The entire bill is predicated on "trickle down" from the corporations. These Congressional crooks are promising more jobs and higher wages. No honest person believes this. It is a lie. The CEOs have said publicly they have no intention of reinvesting the tax savings in their business. They intend to do stock buybacks and pay off debt.

So - answer, please - how can the economy boom when you don't believe in trickle down?

There will be no boom. Just the opposite in fact - higher interest rates because of the debt, recession, job losses, as corporations pull in their horns because cost of doing business has risen because interest rates have risen because of debt brought on by THEIR tax cuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
It can't screw the poor who don't pay federal tax anyway. They would save money just by being able to do their return on one, easy to understand, page.
Horse hockey, again. The poor get FREE tax preparation services - they exist everywhere. I know many who utilize them. The people in the lowest tax bracket will see an INCREASE in their taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
No one should get back more than they have paid in and should have a SSN to be paid anything, which eliminates fraud by illegals, some of which don't even live in the country.
Well, then, write the GOP and tell them to do away with their brainchild the EITC. That should go a long way to create complete societal destabilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
As it is now, I don't like it, but would vote for it because it is better for the country than what we have now.
So, you think increasing the deficit and debt on the basis of PROVEN failed policy is a good thing?

No, IT IS NOT. Increase the national debt, adding further costs to the interest burden of our debt is NOT good for anyone. This leads to economic destabilization and recession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
Didn't vote in the poll because its limited and narrow just as it was designed to be. Wants to prove a negative.
The truth hurts.

The bill is crap.

Educate yourself - and then come back and say what you've just said:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?437614...uss-us-economy

And, if you can't be bothered to invest an hour to educate yourself, you would be well-served to stop embarrassing yourself by posting ridiculous assertions which only reveal your ignorance.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 11-28-2017 at 11:56 AM..
 
Old 11-28-2017, 11:45 AM
 
9,826 posts, read 11,840,340 times
Reputation: 6304
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
I will probably sit out of the 2018 midterms because the GOP congress has been just awful and the Democrats donít offer a better alternative. But I will definitely support Trumpís re-election no matter what:

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