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Old 11-29-2017, 11:40 AM
 
Location: the Sticks
8,393 posts, read 2,424,414 times
Reputation: 4387

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
At the time, Qadaffi was going to slaughter 250,000 civilians in order to get to the rebels. You may disagree, but that's not an acceptable moral tradeoff.
And what made it our responsibility to get involved? Why do we have a UN?
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:48 AM
 
8,199 posts, read 6,104,293 times
Reputation: 11730
Wait, I thought the millionaire NFL players were slaves. This seems different somehow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Have you folks claimed responsibility for Iraq yet? No? Get back with us about Libya when you do, thanks.
I fully admit I fell for the neo-con establishment BS that foisted Iraq on us. While it was led by Republicans, the vast majority of Democrats were onboard too.

I won't make that mistake again. Unless it can be proven how US security is at stake, I'm done with the US's foreign meddling. I don't even see North Korea being our direct interest.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,615 posts, read 16,739,247 times
Reputation: 26185
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
How is that Clinton's fault again?

Your faux outrage impresses no one.
Feel free to actually dispute instead of childish drive by insults.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:23 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
5,923 posts, read 2,823,461 times
Reputation: 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Finally putting the blame where it lies...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/895853001/


Glenn Reynolds is the owner of Instapundit, a highly respected blog, one of the first blogs from back in the early 2000s. He is a law professor and is highly intelligent. In fact, he is a Beauchamp Brogan Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of Tennessee College of Law.

I know the liberals won't like that, but the fact remains, he is extremely respected by MSM, even CNN, where I first saw him many years ago, and it prompted me to start my own blog that I ran for 10 years. The left can cry and make excuses, but they will never be smarter than Reynolds.

Fact: Hillary did joke about "we came, we saw, he died" in regards to Gaddafi.
Fact: After toppling Gaddafi, all hell broke loose in the region.
Fact: Africans are being sold as slaves.


The plug has been pulled. The slow, circling down the drain is beginning.
Your source says,

"Black Africans are being sold in open-air slave markets, and it’s Hillary Clinton’s fault."

"Libya has been beset by chaos (practicing slavery) since NATO-backed forces overthrew long-serving ruler Col. Moammar Gadhafi in October 2011.”

"And who was behind that overthrow? None other than then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton."

"Under President George W. Bush, the United States negotiated an agreement with Libyan strongman Gadhafi. The deal: He would give up his weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and we wouldn’t try to depose him."

But then Hillary Clinton took Moammar Gadhafi out of power and turned Libya into a country that now practices slavery.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/895853001/


And similar things happened in Iraq when GW Bush took Saddam Hussein out of power. It caused 100,000's of innocent Iraqi's to die in the aftermath and caused ISIS to be able to take over Iraq.

I will concede that Hillary Clinton's actions in Libya caused that country to now practice slavery, and GW Bush's actions in Iraq caused that country to face similar conditions. And clearly both parties are guilty of overthrowing dictators and then making those countries even worse than they were before.

Perhaps it would be nice if liberals and conservatives would be more careful about overthrowing dictators (because America taking dictators out of power has not been working so good recently, and its both parties doing it.)

Last edited by chad3; 11-29-2017 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:37 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,674 posts, read 6,184,005 times
Reputation: 12231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Finally putting the blame where it lies...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/895853001/


*****
Fact: Hillary did joke about "we came, we saw, he died" in regards to Gaddafi.
Fact: After toppling Gaddafi, all hell broke loose in the region.
Fact: Africans are being sold as slaves.

The plug has been pulled. The slow, circling down the drain is beginning.
To be fair the advocacy of overthrowing Gaddafi was bipartisan. What no one wants to admit is that we need a return to some form of colonialism. These countries are incapable of self-government. The U.S. and Canada were taught, albeit episodically how to self-govern.

Also worthy of note is the continuation of slavery. Our slaves came by virtue of sale by African traders. We didn't run into the forest to capture people. We are not the only owners of the stain of slavery. So "brown good white bad" is not appropriate agenda. I am not a white supremacist; every one owns lots of stains of history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
And what made it our responsibility to get involved? Why do we have a UN?
Good question. The U.N. is useless. To the United Nations: Time to Call it a Bad Day
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad3 View Post
And similar things happened in Iraq when GW Bush took Saddam Hussein out of power. It caused 100,000's of innocent Iraqi's to die in the aftermath and caused ISIS to be able to take over Iraq.

I will concede that Hillary Clinton's actions in Libya caused that country to now practice slavery, and GW Bush's actions in Iraq caused that country to face similar conditions. And clearly both parties are guilty of overthrowing dictators and then making those countries even worse than they were before.

Perhaps it would be nice if liberals and conservatives would be more careful about overthrowing dictators (because America taking dictators out of power has not been working so good recently, and its both parties doing it.)
You get the wrong lesson. These areas were rather brutal before, during, and after Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Houston
22,410 posts, read 11,539,567 times
Reputation: 9036
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad3 View Post
Your source says,

"Black Africans are being sold in open-air slave markets, and it’s Hillary Clinton’s fault."

"Libya has been beset by chaos (practicing slavery) since NATO-backed forces overthrew long-serving ruler Col. Moammar Gadhafi in October 2011.”

"And who was behind that overthrow? None other than then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton."

"Under President George W. Bush, the United States negotiated an agreement with Libyan strongman Gadhafi. The deal: He would give up his weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and we wouldn’t try to depose him."

But then Hillary Clinton took Moammar Gadhafi out of power and turned Libya into a country that now practices slavery.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/895853001/


And similar things happened in Iraq when GW Bush took Saddam Hussein out of power. It caused 100,000's of innocent Iraqi's to die in the aftermath and caused ISIS to be able to take over Iraq.

I will concede that Hillary Clinton's actions in Libya caused that country to now practice slavery, and GW Bush's actions in Iraq caused that country to face similar conditions. And clearly both parties are guilty of overthrowing dictators and then making those countries even worse than they were before.

Perhaps it would be nice if liberals and conservatives would be more careful about overthrowing dictators (because America taking dictators out of power has not been working so good recently, and its both parties doing it.)
Ditto
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:39 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,193 posts, read 10,376,240 times
Reputation: 11206
The Gaddafi coupe was initiated by the French government, not the U.S. We merely went along with it and sent some troop support, as did many other NATO nations. Not saying Obama, Clinton etc get off scot-free, but even if they objected they couldn't exactly deny the French pursuit given all the sacrifices made for the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
You get the wrong lesson. These areas were rather brutal before, during, and after Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein.
Unfortunately, in the MidEast your options are usually either a secular dictator or a fanatical theocracy. Both are oppressive but at least with the former you don't have to worry about government-sanctioned genocide for religious purposes. Saddam, Gaddafi etc were bad dudes but they at least repressed the worst elements we're now seeing in ISIL, etc.

But of course the global powers do not care if Libya or Iraq are in chaos socially as long as that oil and gold is on the market and obtainable. Same reason the U.S. continues to back the Saudis over Iran, the latter who have their oil supply nationalized and not up for grabs for the Trumps, Tillersons, Putins, etc of the world.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:13 AM
 
14,040 posts, read 6,370,866 times
Reputation: 14575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Feel free to actually dispute instead of childish drive by insults.
Why not just answer the very simple question I posed to you instead of deflecting?

Last edited by thefragile; 11-30-2017 at 09:39 AM..
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:34 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,674 posts, read 6,184,005 times
Reputation: 12231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Unfortunately, in the MidEast your options are usually either a secular dictator or a fanatical theocracy. Both are oppressive but at least with the former you don't have to worry about government-sanctioned genocide for religious purposes. Saddam, Gaddafi etc were bad dudes but they at least repressed the worst elements we're now seeing in ISIL, etc.
Well Israel seems to have found another option. It's not perfect but it's a lot better.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:39 AM
 
2,952 posts, read 1,623,145 times
Reputation: 5292
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Need to stop overthrowing dictators that are not threatening to us. It just leads to worse.
That is correct. Thank Geo Bush (war criminal) for starting this mess.
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