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Dammit. I was hoping he would lose, because then my girlfriends (and one gay guy) were planning on suing all of the gentleman's clubs in the area for discriminating against women and the LGBT community.
jj, the baker wasn't objecting to the design of a cake or selling the men a cake. he was objecting to the action of being asked to bake a cake specifically for a gay wedding, a product he made, which he considered participating in a gay wedding and against his religious beliefs. he offered these men any cake in the shop already made.
Then he is still in violation of the state law that says a business can not discriminate in the sales of goods or services based on sexual orientation. He chose to offer wedding cakes, he can not legally only sell those cakes to heterosexuals based on the state law.
If we allow religious beliefs to circumvent generally applicable laws, then we might as well toss out all laws since anyone can claim anything is a religious belief.
Also, he did not claim religious belief in the supreme court case he dropped that and went with freedom of speech and expression. What speech or expression was he required to express in the cake? Don't know since the design wasn't discussed.
Then he is still in violation of the state law that says a business can not discriminate in the sales of goods or services based on sexual orientation.
Your stance above seemed to be what the state's lawyer was arguing from reading the transcript of the oral arguments today.
the baker's lawyer's argument separated the mens' sexual orientation, that they were gay, saying the baker would have sold them anything already made, from making a special cake for the action of a wedding of two gay men which was against his religious beliefs.
at least that was my take, but what do I know. I'm no lawyer, but it was interesting reading the exchanges between the lawyers and the supremes.
Your stance above seemed to be what the state's lawyer was arguing from reading the transcript of the oral arguments today.
the baker's lawyer's argument separated the mens' sexual orientation, that they were gay, saying the baker would have sold them anything already made, from making a special cake for the action of a wedding of two gay men which was against his religious beliefs.
at least that was my take, but what do I know. I'm no lawyer, but it was interesting reading the exchanges between the lawyers and the supremes.
But the baker offered the service of custom wedding cakes in his shop, the law says that he can not refuse services. If he did not offer the service of custom cakes then he would not have to do them for anyone.
If Jane and Jack came in and ordered a cake with 3 tiers and sugar flowers and he made that cake for them, then he can not refuse to make that cake for Bob and Bill.
Maurice Bessinger claimed that separation of races was a religious belief and he shouldn't have to serve blacks in his restaurant. He lost that case because religious belief does not trump generally applicable law.
I don't like the baker's choice, but it is just that. For a sole proprietor, single-member LLC, or other very small business that provides a personal service like this, the business owner should be allowed to serve who he or she wishes. But, if the baker does win this case, it will mean that small businesses can refuse to serve people for religious reasons. Think about it, every jewish bakery could refuse to serve any muslim. A christian doctor could refuse to treat an atheist, the possibilities are endless.
That is where this might end up if the baker wins.
The idea that two gay men would go to a straight man to have a cake decorated is just insane to behind with. It’s like lesbians going to the chess club for softball advice.
No one was asking the baker to engage in gay sex, just to make a cake.
You realize this could open the door for Muslims to force non-Muslims to make pro-Allah stuff, for porno guys to punish people who won't make penis cakes (or even drawings), to punish feminists who won't produce woman-demeaning stuff for he-man clubs (not sure if they still have those, I know they did in Little Rascals), etc.
If others can force you to make you go against your beliefs, which beliefs should be protected? Should everyone have to comply? Should only the PC groups get exempt? Or should everyone be exempt?
Well that works both ways but I do agree that thes cases are a waste of money and Court time, there are many more serious issues.
This is not a major case like gerrymandering.
This is far more serious than gerrymandering or even term limits. If someone can force someone else to do an activity that they're morally opposed to and can use the government to beat any who oppose going along with the arm of the state, what kind of society would that be? It wouldn't be a good one!
You realize this could open the door for Muslims to force non-Muslims to make pro-Allah stuff, for porno guys to punish people who won't make penis cakes (or even drawings), to punish feminists who won't produce woman-demeaning stuff for he-man clubs (not sure if they still have those, I know they did in Little Rascals), etc.
If others can force you to make you go against your beliefs, which beliefs should be protected? Should everyone have to comply? Should only the PC groups get exempt? Or should everyone be exempt?
He wasn't being asked to provide anything that he didn't offer. He offered wedding cakes, he can not discriminate based on who is purchasing the said cake. If he did not offer wedding cakes no one could force him to make one. Just like if he offered penis cakes he could not discriminate, but if he did not offer penis cakes no one could force him to make them.
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