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Old 12-14-2017, 03:44 PM
 
10,587 posts, read 12,057,892 times
Reputation: 6433

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
The mom was stunned the daughter stated she thought about moving but didn't want to disrupt.
And this is the reason that this stuff goes unreported. Women are generally taught by society not to disrupt. When something weird like this happens, it is SOOO uncomfortable that you just don't want to bring attention to yourself or what is happening. You just hope and pray inside that it's a fleeting moment, it will stop soon, it won't happen again, maybe you're overreacting. And you do nothing. Then, later, you think about it and you get mad and you rehash it over and over again.

Most of us are lucky that are harrassers do go away or they don't become famous or they don't become public servants. Because if they do, the way you and that young girl and her mother felt just sticks in your brain while he is parading around pretending to be Mr. Nice Guy.
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:52 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
4,009 posts, read 5,468,882 times
Reputation: 4540
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Very true, what's the definition of SH? Is trying to kiss someone SH? Is trying to hold someone's hand SH? You could probably argue that virtually any level of interaction between two people, verbal or physical, could be construed as SH. Not sure where this ends.
Sexual Harrassment is unwanted touching, along with explicit/nuisance texting and verbal harrassment of a sexual nature...

If you are out on a first date, ask the woman if you can kiss her if you are in any doubt at all. As for holding hands, smile and put your hand out and see if she takes it.

Yes, there are grey areas when it comes to sexual harrassment but you're still making it far more complicated than it actually is.
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:55 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
4,009 posts, read 5,468,882 times
Reputation: 4540
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I am not saying it's all crap, but the highlighted is crap.

People aren't restricted to work in restaurant industry. There ARE other industries outside restaurants, in case you don't know! I don't see how anybody would be afraid of being blacklisted.
What about those that trained for years to become chefs? Are you saying that they should just give up on their career of choice and change it?
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:29 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
4,009 posts, read 5,468,882 times
Reputation: 4540
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I only have one agenda - truth.
Me too. Amusingly enough, I even have the words Quaere Verum on a tattoo that I got many moons ago.

Quote:
You are more than welcome to prove me wrong. By looking at the data, even at low estimate, 85% of allegations are false.
In your own words, per your blog post, 85% of allegations are false or can't be proven. The operative here is can't be proven. Just because somebody can't prove something, does not automatically make it false.

Per the data on the link that you provided, of 1000 Robbery cases, only 619 are ever reported and only 20 robbers will end up incarcerated and 22 will lead to a felony conviction. Therefore, using your logic for rape allegations, over 83% of reported robbery allegations are 'false' (or can't be proven). Doesn't that sound ludicrous to you? Do you really think that 83% of people who report a robbery are making it up?

As with rape, unless a third party witnesses the incident or concrete evidence of the crime and the assailant is available to police, it is incredibly hard to make a case.

Also, with rape, it is far more personal and emotionally difficult than with something like robbery, where only material objects were taken.

What you did not take into account in your data, was that studies have shown that 80% of rapes that get convictions are known as "classic rape cases"- where a stranger is the perpetrator and there are injuries, weapon use and additional crimes committed.

This kind of rape is far easier to prove (and therefore prosecute) than a rape committed by a person known to the victim- which you said yourself is 70% of all allegations.

When somebody is known to the victim, it is suddenly a matter of he said, she said. So, even if there is DNA evidence showing that intercourse took place, all he has to say is that it was consensual.

But does this mean that they are false accusations? Of course not.

Again, just because something can't be proven, while it does not necessarily make it true, it does not automatically make it false.
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:20 PM
 
6,785 posts, read 1,705,782 times
Reputation: 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I am not saying it's all crap, but the highlighted is crap.

People aren't restricted to work in restaurant industry. There ARE other industries outside restaurants, in case you don't know! I don't see how anybody would be afraid of being blacklisted.
Read the story. That might be their career. Its not like they are working at Denny's. These are high end restaurants that pay well. So they quit because of the harassment and apply somewhere else. Everyone wants job references. This guy knows everyone in the industry and they don't get the job. Sure they can do something else but why should this guy block them? Not that many high paying jobs that don't require a degree.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:56 AM
 
6,785 posts, read 1,705,782 times
Reputation: 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Very true, what's the definition of SH? Is trying to kiss someone SH? Is trying to hold someone's hand SH? You could probably argue that virtually any level of interaction between two people, verbal or physical, could be construed as SH. Not sure where this ends.
Its pretty simple. If you are a straight man and you supervise women treat them exactly how you would treat another man working for you. No touching outside of a handshake, no flirting, no inappropriate comments about them personally and don't try to date them. Millions of single women out there who don't work where you work so why mess with the ones at your workplace? Sure your odds are better that you are going to get "some" from a woman who thinks she might get fired if she says no, but that is so wrong.

Over the years I have supervised hundreds of women and never pushed the envelope. Its really not that difficult. Same thing with female co-workers. If you don't cross the above lines I mentioned its very unlikely you will ever have any issues. And if something does develop with someone be a gentleman. Show respect.

If its outside of your professional environment its common sense. If you are trying to kiss a woman or hold her hand and its in the context of dating them what would the confusion be? If its not in the context of dating them why would you do that?

Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 12-15-2017 at 06:05 AM..
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:07 AM
 
18,391 posts, read 9,475,767 times
Reputation: 5142
Quote:
Originally Posted by glamatomic View Post
What about those that trained for years to become chefs? Are you saying that they should just give up on their career of choice and change it?
I was trained for over 10 years to work in one profession, and now I work in a different profession. Most people donít work the same profession as they are trained.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Japan
10,502 posts, read 4,328,301 times
Reputation: 6743
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
That's a tough one.
I'm surprised the issue, having been around so long, doesn't have completed studies with recommendations already.
Completed studies are irrelevant when the whole concept of what constitutes "sexual harassment" is in flux and is being aggressively redefined as we speak? The world learned just yesterday that "Baby it's Cold Outside" is about sexual harassment and date rape. What will we learn tomorrow?
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:09 AM
 
18,391 posts, read 9,475,767 times
Reputation: 5142
Quote:
Originally Posted by glamatomic View Post
Me too. Amusingly enough, I even have the words Quaere Verum on a tattoo that I got many moons ago.



In your own words, per your blog post, 85% of allegations are false or can't be proven. The operative here is can't be proven. Just because somebody can't prove something, does not automatically make it false.

Per the data on the link that you provided, of 1000 Robbery cases, only 619 are ever reported and only 20 robbers will end up incarcerated and 22 will lead to a felony conviction. Therefore, using your logic for rape allegations, over 83% of reported robbery allegations are 'false' (or can't be proven). Doesn't that sound ludicrous to you? Do you really think that 83% of people who report a robbery are making it up?

As with rape, unless a third party witnesses the incident or concrete evidence of the crime and the assailant is available to police, it is incredibly hard to make a case.

Also, with rape, it is far more personal and emotionally difficult than with something like robbery, where only material objects were taken.

What you did not take into account in your data, was that studies have shown that 80% of rapes that get convictions are known as "classic rape cases"- where a stranger is the perpetrator and there are injuries, weapon use and additional crimes committed.

This kind of rape is far easier to prove (and therefore prosecute) than a rape committed by a person known to the victim- which you said yourself is 70% of all allegations.

When somebody is known to the victim, it is suddenly a matter of he said, she said. So, even if there is DNA evidence showing that intercourse took place, all he has to say is that it was consensual.

But does this mean that they are false accusations? Of course not.

Again, just because something can't be proven, while it does not necessarily make it true, it does not automatically make it false.
Please read. Robbery often doesn’t happen between people who know each other. Rape does!

And conversely, just because some people report it, it doesn’t mean it’s true. Not sure what your point is. Are you willing to ruin someone’s life for something that can’t be proven?

I believe the standard is that before we ruin someone’s life, let’s see some hard evidence or some confessions.

Last edited by lifeexplorer; 12-15-2017 at 06:25 AM..
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:28 AM
 
6,785 posts, read 1,705,782 times
Reputation: 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I was trained for over 10 years to work in one profession, and now I work in a different profession. Most people don’t work the same profession as they are trained.
Did you change careers because you chose to or because you got blacklisted in your previous career? Big difference. Someone should not have to change professions because some spiteful ogre tries to ruin their career.

If it was your wife, girlfriend or daughter you would tell them change careers lots of careers out there. No big deal.

Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 12-15-2017 at 06:40 AM..
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