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Old 12-08-2017, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,509 posts, read 43,785,893 times
Reputation: 15024

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
Did they follow-up that question with would you be willing to give up 25% of your income to ensure everyone has "free healthcare?'
US citizens are already paying 31% in taxes and premiums (see below).

Many families now are stuck with at least $10k/year in premiums PLUS huge deductibles before the plans pay anything, in addition to taxes, premiums, deductibles, copays and balance billing. Worse yet, people between ages of 60-65 (pre-Medicare) are paying that PER PERSON.

Our current system is a huge scam.

Did this a while back based on figures from Canada:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
OK, looking at this table

Average household expenditure, by province (Canada)

Canadian family of 4 earning $80K pays:

$14,867 - Taxes (includes health insurance/retirement (i.e. FICA))
$x2,250 - Health Care
$17,117 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care

US family of 4 earning $80k w/employer-subsidized insurance pays:

$x6,120 - FICA Taxes (SS - similar to Canadian pension)
$x4,790 - Federal Income Taxes (includes $2k child tax credit)
$x6,000 - Employer subsidized health insurance (low)
$x2,500 - Deductible, miscellaneous cost (low)
$19,410 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care

US citizen w/employer insurance pays about $2k a year more - plus still has exposure to balance billing and max-out-of-pocket issues.

For the US family forced to buy privately or on the ACA, their costs would look more like this:

$x6,120 - FICA Taxes
$x4,790 - Federal Income Taxes
$x8,000 - ACA subsidized premium national average
$x6,000 - Deductible (maximum out-of-pocket up to $13,700)
$24,910 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care

That is at least a $7,800/year difference for those not covered by an employer. And, the American still has another almost $8k balance billing and max out-of-pocket exposure.
Note, they aren't paying 56% in taxes - they aren't even paying 25% in taxes. Their actual tax rate, including their equivalent of our SS AND health care, is 22% v. US family at 31% for all categories.

So, who's getting ripped off, again?

Last edited by Ariadne22; 12-08-2017 at 08:21 PM..
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,664 posts, read 3,168,645 times
Reputation: 7081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
Every other country that is protected by the US military, and taxes ALL of their citizens. Most Americans would be fine closing our bases around the world and using the military to protect our borders. How many of your progressives would be willing to tax EVERYONE to pay for healthcare? Virtually none of you.
You don't speak for me.

Incidentally, what you call "progressive" is just the normal way of doing things in every other advanced nation.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,044 posts, read 13,605,780 times
Reputation: 5481
State funded healthcare is easy, you just don't have to think about bills and stuff -outta sight, outta mind.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Boston
7,551 posts, read 2,201,185 times
Reputation: 5366
Why single payer died in Vermont - 2014

Vermont under Governor Shumlin became the most visible trailblazer. Until Wednesday, when the governor admitted what critics had said all along: He couldn’t pay for it.


“It is not the right time for Vermont” to pass a single-payer system, Shumlin acknowledged in a public statement ending his signature initiative. He concluded the 11.5 percent payroll assessments on businesses and sliding premiums up to 9.5 percent of individuals’ income “might hurt our economy.”




well then Dems should make it part of their party platform for 2018 and 2020, single payer.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,664 posts, read 3,168,645 times
Reputation: 7081
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post

Did they follow-up that question with would you be willing to give up 25% of your income to ensure everyone has "free healthcare?'
You're misinformed. If the average middle-class Canadian has to "give up 25%" of their incomes, they would have great difficulty enjoying a high standard of living, wouldn't they? But, the thing is, they DO have a very high standard of living. The Canadian middle-class is reportedly the strongest in the world.

Can you explain that?

Besides, the US healthcare system nickel and dimes you to death. Premiums, copays, deductibles. The costs go on and on. Have you seen what a hospital here charges for a couple of aspirin? And don't even get me started on the cost of medications here compared to other countries. Atrocious.

That's why I take very, very good care of myself. There are no guarantees of good health, of course, but prevention is the best bet. And the thought of being very sick in the US, and potentially becoming bankrupt, scares the bejeezus out of me.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,664 posts, read 3,168,645 times
Reputation: 7081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post
we need to regulate the price of healthcare itself, a doctor visit costing $400.00 just to give you a prescription is ridiculous.
Agreed!
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,664 posts, read 3,168,645 times
Reputation: 7081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
No they dont and because you believe the propoganda that they do, doesn't make it so. And If you think any politician cares about you(other than your money or vote), I have a bridge to sell you.
Apparently, you believe the anti-universal healthcare propaganda of the right-wing. If you believe all of its lies and distortions, I have an even bigger bridge to sell you.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Palm Springs, CA
26,529 posts, read 24,945,066 times
Reputation: 7739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
You have a poll by the same guys who said Hillary would win the presidential election. Presidential Election 2016: Key Indicators
1. Gallup did not say that. Even your link doesn't say that.

2. You're lucky I didn't post the Pew poll from earlier this year which showed an even greater percentage of Americans (60%) who believe the government should ensure health care coverage. But here ya go:

More Americans say government should ensure health care coverage | Pew Research Center

One question that none of the anti-health care forces can reasonably answer: What do you do with people who choose to not buy health insurance (or can't afford it) when they suddenly have an emergency and need to be hospitalized? And don't say they should be left to die on the street because you know that the good hospitals and doctors of this country absolutely would not allow that to happen. Besides that, you'd have to be a barbarian to truly believe that's the way it should be handled.

If we don't have a national program for basic care, we should, at the very least, have a national program for emergency care.

Last edited by AnUnidentifiedMale; 12-08-2017 at 08:43 PM..
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Denver
1,303 posts, read 430,145 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
just add 25% to what you're paying now and you'll be all set.
Why are you making numbers up? Where do you get 25% from?
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:27 PM
 
1,286 posts, read 570,811 times
Reputation: 1184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Americans are getting fat, lazy and dependent on the nanny state. Its sad.
Perhaps you are, but not everyone. I work hard, am well within my healthy weight and very active. I pay my taxes and make good use of the services the government provides (veteran benefits, roads, etc.).
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