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You missed my point completely... see the above post for an explanation. And who said anything about Hebrew? Though I'm sure if you went to a bank in Brooklyn, there would be someone there who speaks that language. It's called good business sense, and serving the local population - it's not a personal attack on you. And as an immigrant yourself, I'm really surprised that you aren't more sympathetic about this subject. Finally, I wasn't necessarily supporting the "accommodation of multicultural people", just the tolerance of those from other cultures. Since when do tolerance and compassion require a sacrifice??? I'm not expecting everyone to learn Spanish (though I already speak it, lol), but I do expect people to respect those who do.
P.S. Care to answer any of the direct questions I asked you? Particularly regarding the Christian holidays, which I was genuinely confused about.
I didn't miss the point but evidently you did! So Brooklyn is the dedicated area where Jewish people can get help in there language. Can they get that same help in Vegas or Arizona. I have more tolerance for other cultures than you can possibly imagine. By continuing to cripple immigrants by giving them an excuse not to learn English, it is those that are doing them injustice. I have seen this in New York, Vegas and Arizona. I have spoken to people that say why should I learn English. In turn they are stuck not being able to acquire the fullness of the American dream. Not this CUBAN!!! I didn't pin point Christian Holidays but I will answer any Christian questions you want. Answer me one first though. What do you have against Christians?
But aren't our roots based on multiculturalism and immigration?? And I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, when you say they're trying to "push" themselves on our culture... language issues aside, I personally don't feel I'm being pushed into anything. And I live in a town that's 68% Hispanic (and about 45% of those are foreign-born), so it's not like I don't have any exposure! They have the right to display their own heritages, and there's no reason we'd have to abandon "American-ness" in exchange... plenty of my neighbors have Mexican, Tongan, and Samoan stickers on their car, but nobody's forced me to put one on mine! I do have a small Israeli flag hanging off my bookshelf, so does that mean I'm denying or abandoning my US citizenship? No, it just means I'm staying connected with my roots, and celebrating the fact that I'm a Jewish (and Slavic)-American. Regardless, I agree that it's hurtful to hear some immigrants speak badly about our country, and it's not a respectful thing for them to do. But that's one of the great things about being an American - we have the right to say whatever we darn well please! This also means that others have the right to react, or debate as we're doing here.
Anyway, I'm sorry if anything sounds harsh to you... I know you're not a racist or a bad person, but I just wish people would be more compassionate. And as "deeptrance" stated, we do border Latin America, so anyone who didn't expect immigrants was fooling themselves. The Swiss probably aren't surprised to see Germans & Italians inhabiting their border towns...
You definitely do not offend me I understand where you are coming from. I love different cultures. My wife was from the Bronx where at one time it was all Italians. It was like like going to Italy. I been to places in Florida that imitates Cuba. I love it!!! My point is not to loose the freedom we have here in America. By becoming a multicultural society we are inviting division. We are a melting pot and what unites us as a nation is the English Language and its culture. The beauty of America is that we have managed to live with each other being from all over the globe. The celebrating of American Holidays together as a nation brings us all closer. Even if we don't, we sure enough celebrate that day off. Apple pie, Base ball, is all part of the American culture that Unites us. As a Cuban do you think we knew what Thanksgiving was in Cuba? Here I have learned to make a killer turkey. Christmas is not the same as well. In Cuba before Castro we gave out presents for to kids only on the sixth of January. Here I spend a bundle buying presents for everybody and there mother. America and its culture has united us all. Where politics divides American Culture Unites.
Oy Vey... if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black!! I'm sorry, but saying stuff like this only adds to our arguments, because it's obvious you have trouble judging people as individuals. You just slap on a label - liberal, illegal, unpatriotic, etc. - and throw anyone who disagrees with you into that category. And how do you know everyone's political leanings in here? Maybe deeptrance & I are Republicans? Yes I am a "liberal", though not a Democrat; but I never said anything about being offended by "thecuban"'s comments, or dismissing him and his opinions... it's called a debate, and few (if any) of us have attacked anyone personally. P.S., being intolerant of intolerance isn't a form of bigotry - it's just being a decent human being.
Btw, how many degrees do I have, (no cheating by reading other threads, LOL)? I don't remember mentioning anything about that, aside from what my minor was in college, as it was relevant to the conversation... sorry if the mere mention of college is somehow threatening! Anyway, I worked hard for the degrees I do have, so there's no reason I shouldn't be proud of those accomplishments. As for picking on his spelling, that was only done because he was chastising others for not speaking English. Realizing now that it's his second language, I do apologize for anything I said regarding that... but the point remains the same, in that many of the people who complain about Spanish speakers, can barely speak their own native language properly. So how can they possibly feel the right to pick on others?? It's a tricky language, and not everyone can pick it up the minute they arrive here...
If what I said doesn't apply to you what offends you? How many times have I been called a neocon on this forum? I couldn't care less when anyone calls me and anyone thinks.
Give me a break already on being intolerant. If I don't agree with you I'm intolerant. The liberal debate is counting the degrees and then if someone doesn't agree with them because they have a degree we are intolerant. I don't care how many degrees you have but if you feel that you are superior to me for it that's great.
Go ahead correct my sentence structure or whatever else. A little common sense goes a lot further than 60,000 spent at big University.
I apologize...Mr. John Holmes' quote was way back on page three of this thread, but I felt the need to respond. I agree totally, Mr. Holmes...especially after leaving Baton Rouge, sigh. Education has become so much easier, in my opinion. I just saw a commercial, the other day, that advertised a gadget/gizmo to actually calculate practically all mathematical equations. How are our children supposed to learn when they are able to look up all the answers online and use their sophisticated phones to solve algebra problems? Is it any wonder that the younger generation is failing miserably educationally?
I may be showing my age, (I'm really not that old) but when I was in school, calculators were forbidden when taking exams.
I realize that English isn't our "official" language, although I would guess most would agree that it should be. What bothers me is that someone must pay for all of the additional signs, books, etc., to be printed in Spanish, also. Wouldn't it be better to spend that money to educate all legal citizens (Americans included) as to not need all of these things printed twice? Just a thought.
Sweattea...I'm with you...common sense is worth millions! I wish that the schools would focus less on frivolous subjects and more on the basics.
Last edited by Kimbercuddles; 12-12-2006 at 12:25 AM..
Reason: blonde...again
I didn't miss the point but evidently you did! So Brooklyn is the dedicated area where Jewish people can get help in there language. Can they get that same help in Vegas or Arizona.
No, and that was my point... they cater to the local population, which in certain areas happens to be Spanish-speakers. I'm actually not sure where you live, so your example might not fit... but for the most part, that's how things are done around the country. I have a feeling that the banks in rural Iowa don't often have a Spanish speaker on-hand, lol. And in certain parts of San Francisco & the Bay Area, you can almost definitely find sales people who speak Chinese. Anyway, we're pulling hairs here, but I still don't understand why it bothers people so much!
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I have more tolerance for other cultures than you can possibly imagine. By continuing to cripple immigrants by giving them an excuse not to learn English, it is those that are doing them injustice. I have seen this in New York, Vegas and Arizona. I have spoken to people that say why should I learn English. In turn they are stuck not being able to acquire the fullness of the American dream. Not this CUBAN!!!
I agree that we should encourage them to learn English, but we also need to have some patience... not every immigrant refuses (like you didn't!), but it does take a while for many of them to adjust. I have a friend who came here from El Salvador almost 15 years ago, and she still struggles with the language, despite years of English classes. She didn't get much of an education in her home country, only going through the equivalent of 4th grade, so it's very hard for her to learn... I accommodate her by speaking mostly in Spanish, but she really doesn't ask for it! I'm sure she'd give anything to be fluent in English... anyway, that's all I was trying to say.
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I didn't pin point Christian Holidays but I will answer any Christian questions you want. Answer me one first though. What do you have against Christians?
Absolutely nothing... what makes you think I have anything against Christians? You said in your original post, we should acknowledge and respect that Christianity is our "founder's religion", and something about recognizing certain holidays. I was just asking you to expand on the holidays part, since it wasn't specific. As for my responses about Christianity, I was simply trying to explain that we're already aware it's the dominant religion here. But some people think it's the ONLY religion, which is what frustrates me sometimes... I obviously don't dislike Christians, especially considering most of my friends are either Christian or Atheist/Christian. We just feel a bit forgotten sometimes, especially at this time of the year. But I have no problems with you all going Christmas-crazy - as we discussed ad-naseum in the "How do you celebrate Christmas" thread! So please, don't label me as a "Christian-hating liberal", LOL.
If what I said doesn't apply to you what offends you? How many times have I been called a neocon on this forum? I couldn't care less when anyone calls me and anyone thinks.
I personally have never called you a "neo con", but if others have, you have every right to respond as I did... and of course it's offensive to be generalized, as it's a natural human response. I guarantee if I started going off about how ALL Republicans yadda yadda, you'd get a bit peeved. Nobody is 100% immune to how others feel about them, no matter how hard you try to convince us of this.
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Give me a break already on being intolerant. If I don't agree with you I'm intolerant. The liberal debate is counting the degrees and then if someone doesn't agree with them because they have a degree we are intolerant. I don't care how many degrees you have but if you feel that you are superior to me for it that's great.
Yeah, sure, I'm superior to you... This is obviously your own issue, not mine, since I've never brought my education into the argument. I worked for years before going to college, and certainly never thought of myself as inferior during that time. So don't throw that BS at me, please.
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Go ahead correct my sentence structure or whatever else. A little common sense goes a lot further than 60,000 spent at big University.
If I wanted to correct everyone's grammar and spelling, I'd be spending 24 hours a day online... Once again, this is your own personal issue, since I haven't attacked your intelligence or common sense at all. I am proud of what I've done in my life, but that doesn't mean I regard others at a "lower" level or anything. But in return, you have no right to put me down or call me snotty, simply because I did earn degrees.... that's just another form of a superiority complex, in my opinion.
You definitely do not offend me I understand where you are coming from. I love different cultures. My wife was from the Bronx where at one time it was all Italians. It was like like going to Italy. I been to places in Florida that imitates Cuba. I love it!!! My point is not to loose the freedom we have here in America. By becoming a multicultural society we are inviting division. We are a melting pot and what unites us as a nation is the English Language and its culture. The beauty of America is that we have managed to live with each other being from all over the globe. The celebrating of American Holidays together as a nation brings us all closer. Even if we don't, we sure enough celebrate that day off. Apple pie, Base ball, is all part of the American culture that Unites us. As a Cuban do you think we knew what Thanksgiving was in Cuba? Here I have learned to make a killer turkey. Christmas is not the same as well. In Cuba before Castro we gave out presents for to kids only on the sixth of January. Here I spend a bundle buying presents for everybody and there mother. America and its culture has united us all. Where politics divides American Culture Unites.
I agree with most of this! I'm just the type who likes to experience other cultures as well, which is why I don't get annoyed by the "multiculturalism" issues. But I think we also need to define this term, because it might not mean the same thing to everyone... when some people say they're against this idea, it's simply a way of saying they're intolerant of anything but their own culture. Either that, or they think it means we have to become segregated. But to me, it just means accepting that we have different types of people here, and that we also shouldn't abandon our roots. One can still celebrate their American-ness, without letting go of their original heritage... just like how you enjoy Cuban & Italian traditions, and I enjoy my own. If we're both in agreement on that, I really have nothing to argue about.
You missed what I was talking about with "the cuban".
We were talking about people who want to ban "Christmas", nativity scenes and Christmas carols from public places, as well as your Pledge of Alliegance and possibly your National Motto due to them being unacceptable, "unconstitutional" displays of religion.
Also we were talking about censorship of American history whenever certain historical figures coincidentally owned slaves.
Guess I did miss that... but I think he quoted Sweettea when he made that comment, which is what confused me! For the record, I don't think it's just "liberals" in general who care about that stuff. Most of the public figures who support it probably are liberal, but don't think we all feel that way! While I think Christmas is a bit overdone & commercial, I don't care about the "Merry Christmas" greetings or any of that... plus many people who do celebrate Christmas would agree with me on the commercialism! As for the Pledge of Allegience, well the G-d part wasn't in there to begin with - so yeah, I'd support returning it to the original words, but it's not a huge deal to me. Though I do believe in the separation of church & state, so you can probably guess my overall stance...
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And as an immigrant yourself, I'm really surprised that you aren't more sympathetic about this subject. Finally, I wasn't necessarily supporting the "accommodation of multicultural people", just the tolerance of those from other cultures. Since when do tolerance and compassion require a sacrifice??? I'm not expecting everyone to learn Spanish (though I already speak it, lol), but I do expect people to respect those who do.
I understand where you are coming from. I love different cultures. My wife was from the Bronx where at one time it was all Italians. It was like like going to Italy. I been to places in Florida that imitates Cuba. I love it!!! My point is not to loose the freedom we have here in America. By becoming a multicultural society we are inviting division. We are a melting pot and what unites us as a nation is the English Language and its culture. The beauty of America is that we have managed to live with each other being from all over the globe. The celebrating of American Holidays together as a nation brings us all closer. Even if we don't, we sure enough celebrate that day off. Apple pie, Base ball, is all part of the American culture that Unites us. As a Cuban do you think we knew what Thanksgiving was in Cuba? Here I have learned to make a killer turkey. Christmas is not the same as well. In Cuba before Castro we gave out presents for to kids only on the sixth of January. Here I spend a bundle buying presents for everybody and there mother. America and its culture has united us all. Where politics divides American Culture Unites.
Progressive lack of education
Education has become so much easier, in my opinion. I just saw a commercial, the other day, that advertised a gadget/gizmo to actually calculate practically all mathematical equations. How are our children supposed to learn when they are able to look up all the answers online and use their sophisticated phones to solve algebra problems? Is it any wonder that the younger generation is failing miserably educationally? 
And in certain parts of San Francisco & the Bay Area, you can almost definitely find sales people who speak Chinese. Anyway, we're pulling hairs here, but I still don't understand why it bothers people so much!
Once again, this is your own personal issue, since I haven't attacked your intelligence or common sense at all. I am proud of what I've done in my life, but that doesn't mean I regard others at a "lower" level or anything. But in return, you have no right to put me down or call me snotty, simply because I did earn degrees.... that's just another form of a superiority complex, in my opinion.
