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Both sides are wrong on this one, and we'll take a look at that here:
The "old timers" are wrong if they think that "punching the bully out" will resolve all the problems. First, they seem to forget that bullies intentionally pick on what they consider easy prey. I was one of those targets, but they screwed up when I "punched a few of them out." So, what they did do? Just come back with an ever-increasing number of thugs to pick fights with me. Unless you're some Hollywood-style martial artists, the bullies will eventually win by sheer force of numbers. In my case, I gave better than I got in nearly all fights, but many were not so fortunate.
Also, even if you ARE capable of "punching out" an endless string of thugs, that doesn't mean it's a fun experience. Hyper-macho types seem to think that beating somebody in a fight is "fun" or "good for you." It's not. Being constantly on edge, never knowing when you're going to have to suddenly get into a brawl is bad for your mental health; it's no more "fun" to punch somebody out in school than it is to shoot somebody.
So, this mindset is flawed since it falsely assumes: the target can beat the thugs in a fight, the thugs won't simply overwhelm the target with sheer numbers, and that constantly being in brawls - win or lose - is a perfectly normal and healthy situation.
The "touchy-feely" types who don't want to assign blame are also wrong. Zero-tolerance is zero common sense, since the only incarnation I've ever seen it in involves blaming BOTH the victim and the attacker equally, which is insane and a violation of common sense and the basic right to self-defense. Zero-tolerance idiocy, which was just starting to become popular when I was near the end of high school, is destructive and dishonest on every level. It rewards the bully since all he has to do is attack somebody and they'll also be punished, and is a prime driver of victims towards acts of shooting up a school to kill their tormentor. Zero tolerance is a an abomination and should be done away with immediately.
Summary: These situations should be treated similarly to how any such aggression is treated in a civilized society. No, I'm not talking about putting kids in prison for being bullies - though I also don't buy the notion that a 16 year old is "too young to know what he's doing" - but let's use some common sense:
It is stupid and cruel to simply ignore the problem of bullying and hope the victims can "fend for themselves." Could you imagine if we ran adult society that way? No police - just vigilantes and thugs? It would never work. People would live in constant fear with violence around every corner.
It is unjust and cruel to punish the thug and the victim equally. Again, imagine if adult society worked that way, where if they caught a mugger, both the victim and the crook would get the same punishment?! It would be an insane police state full of constant fear.
It should not be as hard as it seems to be to avoid either of the above extremes, and it should be common sense to realize just how horrible both of them are as ways to live. Just because we used to do things that supported one extreme and now have flipped to the other doesn't actually make EITHER of them right.
Last edited by Rambler123; 12-11-2017 at 06:01 PM..
We dealt with it ourselves or we'd get our asses kicked at home.
But times are different now. If a kid punches you and you punch him back both get suspended. Administrators ignore bullying in a good majority of schools because nearly always the parents are bullies and it's easier to control the target than the bully. If the cops are brought into it, there's that mess. Not to mention that people are litigious.
And bullying is much worse these days with social media adding an extra element, and kids (and parents) angrier and meaner than I ever thought imaginable.
Some bullies taunt the parents after their child has killed him/herself. How sick is that?
'Fighting back'.....and guess what happens to the tax payers once a kid gets irreversible brain damage or death from a single punch on school grounds? The district gets sued out the wazoo and taxpayers are on the hook for the bill.
I student taught in the mid-1970s at a very rural PA high school. One of my 9th graders stuck a hunting knife in the 10 ring of one of my 10th graders. He was dead when he hit the floor. It was over a girl.
In my experience, I graduated high school in 1965, nothing was done regarding a bully. I either had to fight back or run for my life and mostly I did the latter.
In my experience, I graduated high school in 1965, nothing was done regarding a bully. I either had to fight back or run for my life and mostly I did the latter.
And we can do better as a nation than that type of crap. Obviously, "zero tolerance" is "zero common sense," but I find it amazing how people seem to think an environment of "might makes right" and perpetual violence is acceptable. I have a bad feeling many of these "punch the bad guys and they'll leave you alone" types either draw their world views from one too many macho movies, or are confusing a few events in their own life with what must happen everywhere.
As other have said, expecting people to just "punch out" the bullies is absurd, especially given the level of thugs these days who have no problem using weapons and sheer numbers (sometimes also with weapons) to beat the hell out of people they don't like. Actions should have consequences, and it should be painfully obvious that a school should be run like any other civilized part of society. We don't allow thugs to commit violent acts with no consequences in reality, nor do we punish the criminal and the victim the same in reality, either.
Were there campaigns to end bullying? Were kids told to just deal with it and "man up?" I'm asking in light the whole Keaton controversy, but that's another topic.
In grade school, back in the 60's, I remember being graded for good citizenship. It was actually on our report cards. Bullies were sent to the office, parents called and all that.
It was pretty much the only option other than to tolerate being bullied.
But we all survived and nobody shot up the school.
Imagine that........
Bullying is quite different today than the 60's, 70's, much more vicious today. The physical part ends but when they go home it continues on social media. Students go to extreme levels to destroy lives today, its a new breed.
Parents need to do a better job with their childen.
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