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Old 01-07-2018, 01:02 PM
 
66,328 posts, read 30,216,244 times
Reputation: 8626

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Well its great you somehow have the evidence to overturn all the political science and historical record just to push your right wing propaganda.
Overturn what? The facts are the same as they've always been. Slanted perspectives have been spoon-fed to the stupid.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:07 PM
 
66,328 posts, read 30,216,244 times
Reputation: 8626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
Hitler banned guns as a means of control, while Leftists oppose (not ban) guns because they don't like violence. Clear difference.
I'm not seeing it that way. The destruction of Kristallnacht, for example. Would so much property damage and loss have occurred if the shop keepers were armed?
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:25 PM
 
Location: USA
17,091 posts, read 8,725,469 times
Reputation: 12896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
Hitler banned guns as a means of control, while Leftists oppose (not ban) guns because they don't like violence. Clear difference.

Guns don't cause violence. PEOPLE DO. Leftist oppose guns because it is the last means of defense against their hero, BIG GOVERNMENT. They don't want us to have any means to resist Big Government tyranny.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,331 posts, read 1,794,514 times
Reputation: 3285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Guns don't cause violence. PEOPLE DO. Leftist oppose guns because it is the last means of defense against their hero, BIG GOVERNMENT. They don't want us to have any means to resist Big Government tyranny.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:47 PM
 
Location: USA
7,479 posts, read 5,774,398 times
Reputation: 12320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Look...

For the terminally clueless, GOP blabber about "socialism!" triggers their deepest fears, so the right wing media harps on it endlessly.

The reality is that the USA has socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the rest of us.

I report. You decide.

Time for CEOs, hedge fund managers and board members to compete with counterparts from India, Mexico, China, etc for their fatcat positions.

Exactly. The rich get bailed out at the expense of others, while the working class gets useless speeches about "bootstraps" while being rolled under the bus. Yes, yes - 1st world (for now) problems, but still... the reality is that there is a sick need in this nation for the non-rich to "suck it up" while the rich are catered to and allowed to do whatever they wish. It's probably born out of some loony mix of the Just World Fallacy combined with the latest created "prosperity gospel" nonsense, but the end message is the same - no matter how hard you work, you don't "deserve" anything, and if you're not rich, it's "your fault." Oh, but if you ARE rich, than "god loves you," and you can do whatever you want.

Idiocy. And then people whine about the cost of so many things in this nation while at the same time electing idiot politicians like Trump who just want to widen the gap further, cut the social safety nets, and make the situation worse.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:25 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 984,234 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Yes, fascism is a better description.

Mussolini was a socialist who discovered stealing government bureaucrats did better than producing.
No he was not, he was far right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_of_Fascism
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:28 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 984,234 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Does attempting to equate fascism with leftism a way the right winger can remove all moral culpability for the nazis actions? Its ok if the Nazis are right wing you don't have to support them.
Good one. However that "informed" gal/guy will never stop, there is no logic, reasoning or whatever just agenda and repeating the same thing million times.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:46 PM
 
66,328 posts, read 30,216,244 times
Reputation: 8626
Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
Good one. However that "informed" gal/guy will never stop, there is no logic, reasoning or whatever just agenda and repeating the same thing million times.
Historical facts mean nothing to you, I see.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:47 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 984,234 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Historical facts mean nothing to you, I see.
Look, there are no facts in any of your posts, historical, mathematical, or whatever.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:04 AM
Status: "I'm an Unmherkun puppy-kicking Socialist" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
3,996 posts, read 2,102,875 times
Reputation: 3741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
For your information Socialists were in Hitler's concentration camps too. The recent tax cut shows a cozy relationship between the corporations and guys like the picture in post 20. That's called National Socialism.
Yep, nazis/fascists and socialists/communists -- two different groups. They absolutely hate each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
Maybe Marx was wrong about an inevitable march toward Communism. Maybe it's Fascism that we are evolving toward.
I'm weak in Italian history, but I understand that Italy, which had the longest serving fascist government of 21 years, didn't have such a hot economy , even pre-depression.

As for fascism aside from economic issues, I understand that its essence is
*the "state as an organism"
*submission of the individual to the state and/or "general will" (ideally one and the same)
*struggling in a hostile, dog-eat-dog world (the most violent aspects of nature as a metaphor for international relations).
*national glory is gained through defeating enemies on the battlefield or otherwise cowing them into submission.

(I know i left out the racial aspects of it. I do agree such thinking usually leads to racism, even if when not actually sourced in it. It's that I don't see racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. as a necessary element of fascism.)

I can understand fascism's appeal on an immediately instinctive level. However, I see multiple problems with it:

*Assumes humans have not, cannot, transcend the "natural" condition, however imperfectly or incompletely (even the word "natural" itself is vague).

*Creates a self-fulfilling prophesy: if you assume other nations are out to get you, then you'll act accordingly; thereby bringing about the very wars and destruction you seek to prevent. This actually reduces your national security in the long run.

*Destroy's talent: By focusing on the immediately visible and obvious physical defense aspects of survival, they miss the broader picture of how societies become sustainably robust in the first place. There's a lot to say about this but, as scientists fleeing Nazi Germany shows, treating the somehow "different" like dirt is simply bad social and cultural practice and not good for your land's long-term prosperity. The new homes for the scientists gained their talents and wealth at the old homeland's expense. And this is before we get into discrimination against the whole plethora of people we all know about, which of course further adds to the effective destruction of talent.

*Diverts too many resources into war preparedness that could be better used for more productive or societally redeeming purposes, thereby reducing the overall quality of life for the German people (even "Aryans"). Nazi Germany wasn't quite Ancient Sparta in terms of hyper-militarization, but it came as close to it as any society in modern times did (with the possible exception of North Korea). Science was used for the purpose of strengthening the state, rather than for its own sake.

There's no doubt other points that escape me, but I covered the highlights.

So for those reasons, I can't really see how we are evolving as a species toward actual fascism. The USA itself, as a nation, I hate to say it, but it is a very real possibility. I don't think we're there - yet. But even before the Trump campaign, I could see quite a few socio-cultural and political trends that needed observing (and does more than ever these days).
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