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Old 01-03-2018, 10:09 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,447,778 times
Reputation: 14266

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In the past, Presidents took serious consideration of what they stated publicly. It would routinely undergo vetting by various internal departments, depending on the topics involved. Yes, it ran the risk by today's standards of not being seen as so "raw" and "genuine" as some people like, and of course Presidents were still far from perfect in their utterances. But there was awareness that the top leader's words signaled a lot - they could reassure allies (or opposite), enable deals to happen (or not), and signal boundaries to adversaries. So Presidents - Republican and Democrat - generally picked their words carefully. They would at least consider whether their statements would enhance national interest or make it more difficult to achieve.

By contrast, we now have the first US President who shoots from the hip with a spur-of-the-moment word salad formed mainly around his insecure ego, i.e. as reactions to what we perceives others to think about him. This plays well with his base, who as local yokels identify with a world where they don't need to vet what they say - and so Trump comes across as "one of us."

Great for Trump with respect to his base, but the problem with this is that it's not just Trumpers reading his Tweets (and the Libs that Trumpers gleefully see as enraged by it); it's also the rest of the world. And when our allies and adversaries are faced with a slew of inconsistent, cathartic statements, one of two things happen:

1. They think he seriously means it, and they form their policies accordingly to go it alone - they form new alliances that exclude the US, etc.

2. They think he doesn't seriously mean it since he spews a lot of hot air, in which case they learn not to take it seriously. This the blunts the credibility of the currency the President carries with his word in public.

Notice that either way, the President's wors becomea devalued, which can't even good.

I think both have happened to an extent, but #2 is especially the risky one with respect to entities like North Korea. Given Trump's flippant and petulant comments, I think others are being conditioned not to take him seriously. That means his word can no longer give valuable, meaningful signals to the opponent in terms of where the negotiation areas are and where the hard boundaries are; they disregard all of it. North Korea also obviously does the same, and the world has similarly discounted them.

So now you have two ego-driven entities who can no longer get good signaling from each other's word - and with nuclear weapons. This is how the stage gets set for a misunderstanding, which is a likely spark to a very costly fight between the two. It only takes a matter of minutes for this to play out.

And that is why a President's character and word still matter, as we will discovery to our own misfortune.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
15,154 posts, read 11,621,740 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
In the past, Presidents took serious consideration of what they stated publicly. It would routinely undergo vetting by various internal departments, depending on the topics involved. Yes, it ran the risk by today's standards of not being seen as so "raw" and "genuine" as some people like, and of course Presidents were still far from perfect in their utterances. But there was awareness that the top leader's words signaled a lot - they could reassure allies (or opposite), enable deals to happen (or not), and signal boundaries to adversaries. So Presidents - Republican and Democrat - generally picked their words carefully. They would at least consider whether their statements would enhance national interest or make it more difficult to achieve.

By contrast, we now have the first US President who shoots from the hip with a spur-of-the-moment word salad formed mainly around his insecure ego, i.e. as reactions to what we perceives others to think about him. This plays well with his base, who as local yokels identify with a world where they don't need to vet what they say - and so Trump comes across as "one of us."

Great for Trump with respect to his base, but the problem with this is that it's not just Trumpers reading his Tweets (and the Libs that Trumpers gleefully see as enraged by it); it's also the rest of the world. And when our allies and adversaries are faced with a slew of inconsistent, cathartic statements, one of two things happen:

1. They think he seriously means it, and they form their policies accordingly to go it alone - they form new alliances that exclude the US, etc.

2. They think he doesn't seriously mean it since he spews a lot of hot air, in which case they learn not to take it seriously. This the blunts the credibility of the currency the President carries with his word in public.

Notice that either way, the President's wors becomea devalued, which can't even good.

I think both have happened to an extent, but #2 is especially the risky one with respect to entities like North Korea. Given Trump's flippant and petulant comments, I think others are being conditioned not to take him seriously. That means his word can no longer give valuable, meaningful signals to the opponent in terms of where the negotiation areas are and where the hard boundaries are; they disregard all of it. North Korea also obviously does the same, and the world has similarly discounted them.

So now you have two ego-driven entities who can no longer get good signaling from each other's word - and with nuclear weapons. This is how the stage gets set for a misunderstanding, which is a likely spark to a very costly fight between the two. It only takes a matter of minutes for this to play out.

And that is why a President's character and word still matter, as we will discovery to our own misfortune.
At what point did we become such wimps? "Carefully chosen words"? You mean like that stuttering cuc Obama? I feel sorry for you if telling it like it is is somehow traumatizing to you, that you think polite speech will solve all our problems no matter who we speak to (even though, liberals don't seem to follow their own mantra when it comes to Trump and his family).
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:35 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,611,558 times
Reputation: 18521
I think it was much needed to crush the PC nannies.

His latest to Rocket Man, was spot on and exactly what was needed.
Looky... looky minutes after Trumps ..."and my button works" Rocket Man reaches out to South Korea to talk.


That was AWESOME.

There is only one way to deal with those that make threats on your life.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:39 PM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,249,994 times
Reputation: 26552
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
I think it was much needed to crush the PC nannies.

His latest to Rocket Man, was spot on and exactly what was needed.
Looky... looky minutes after Trumps ..."and my button works" Rocket Man reaches out to South Korea to talk.


That was AWESOME.

There is only one way to deal with those that make threats on your life.
Yes.... it's called "due process" and "we have a military for that sort of thing."

Trading Twitter barbs is unpresidential.

At best.

It's downright stupid at worst.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:45 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,611,558 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
Yes.... it's called "due process" and "we have a military for that sort of thing."

Trading Twitter barbs is unpresidential.

At best.

It's downright stupid at worst.

Trump rules Twitter with his one liners. They are a riot!


"I got a button on my desk too.... and my button works"
Priceless! lmao

Almost as good as, "because you'd be in jail"


Rocket Man immediately calls S. Korea demanding Trump stop. Let's talk.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
3,614 posts, read 1,735,535 times
Reputation: 2740
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Trump rules Twitter with his one liners. They are a riot!


"I got a button on my desk too.... and my button works"
Priceless! lmao

Almost as good as, "because you'd be in jail"


Rocket Man immediately calls S. Korea demanding Trump stop. Let's talk.
Trump has balls of steel. God bless him.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:52 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,447,778 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOrocks17 View Post
At what point did we become such wimps? "Carefully chosen words"? You mean like that stuttering cuc Obama? I feel sorry for you if telling it like it is is somehow traumatizing to you, that you think polite speech will solve all our problems no matter who we speak to (even though, liberals don't seem to follow their own mantra when it comes to Trump and his family).
I didn't say polite speech; I said carefully considered speech.

Look beyond Dirty Harry movies for your archetype of leadership and international diplomacy. And it has little to do with Obama, who is not President anymore.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:56 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,611,558 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
I didn't say polite speech; I said carefully considered speech.

Look beyond Dirty Harry movies for your archetype of leadership and international diplomacy. And it has little to do with Obama, who is not President anymore.


This place needed a Dirty Hairy, Matt Dillon type.

Seems to be working well, compared to the last few guys.
He is the teflon Don. Everything you guys have thrown at him, slid right off. Only to have it thrown back at you, hitting the target solid.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:56 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,447,778 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by LGR_NYR View Post
Trump has balls of steel. God bless him.
Does he? He says a lot of BS that the world is learning not to take seriously, so he is devaluing his word in the international community.

Meanwhile, you know who is choosing his words carefully and ascending with increasing credibility on the world stage? One Mr. Xi Jinping of China.

It may feel good to you to have a President who expresses himself with the directness of ameathead in the bleachers at a baseball game on his fifth beer, but it won't play to the USA's benefit on the world stage. More mature leaders of other nations are smart enough to see and exploit that.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:57 PM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,607,699 times
Reputation: 22232
So much pearl clutching.
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