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Old 01-04-2018, 05:00 PM
 
44,344 posts, read 17,716,609 times
Reputation: 18667

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
It was last year around this time when it was still open season about roasting Trump and Trump supporters at work and most Trump supporters stay silent at work. In the last 6 months, I've heard more and more Trump support amongst other workers openly supporting the President's decisions than before.

People I talk to are supportive of his tax cuts while some caution about the limits on deduction which can affect some people. His push to work on reforming immigration is a big topic. The democrats really lost public support because of their open borders support.

Trump's DACA comments even have the support of many legal immigrants who believes Trump is doing the right thing with getting congress to act on it and on the H-1B issues.

Trump is taking care of business and the only thing MSM can do is spread fake news about negative polls they collect from lazy moms sitting at home.

This infuriates the Trump haters more than anything else.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:09 PM
 
2,608 posts, read 3,834,846 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
This infuriates the Trump haters more than anything else.
I hate Trump.

One of the coworkers Iím closest too is a Trump supporter as is my best friend and her husband.

Why would disagreeing with me infuriated me?
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:10 PM
 
44,344 posts, read 17,716,609 times
Reputation: 18667
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisan23 View Post
I hate Trump.

One of the coworkers Iím closest too is a Trump supporter as is my best friend and her husband.

Why would disagreeing with me infuriated me?
No worries.

I wasn't talking about your coworker.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
1,135 posts, read 999,023 times
Reputation: 981
My step-son's boss is very angry, because his taxes are going up. His boss owns a $$$$$ house in the rural subdivions. His boss thinks Trump is a moron anyway.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:44 PM
 
10,931 posts, read 5,004,728 times
Reputation: 4884
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Most Americans want a stronger southern border, they do not want more illegal immigrants flooding into this country, they approve of Trump's tough stance on travel from terrorist countries, decimating ISIS, beefing up the U.S. military, supporting our veterans, supporting Israel, supporting our law enforcement, cracking down on crime in inner cities, bringing back blue-collar manufacturing jobs, decreasing unemployment, decreasing unnecessary taxes and regulations, eliminating unfair trade with foreign countries, increasing GDP growth and the stock market.

Trump has broad approval on these policies and more. Stuff that actually matters.
A lot of what you write aren't even "policies" - they're just vague statements, which is really what most of what Trump campaigned on. At any rate, let's run through some of them:


Regarding: a straight ACA repeal
Poll: Voters oppose straight Obamacare repeal
Quote:
Just 36 percent of voters support repealing Obamacare without a replacement...

Half of voters, 50 percent, oppose repealing the 2010 health care law without replacing it, the poll shows.


Regarding: tax bill
Poll: Majority oppose GOP tax bill
Quote:
The latest Harvard CAPS-Harris survey found that 64 percent of respondents oppose the bill. While 72 percent of Republicans support the GOP’s tax reform efforts, 89 percent of Democrats and 70 percent of independents oppose it.

Regarding: "Stronger southern border" and "flood of illegal immigrants"
Most Americans, including Democrats and liberals, do believe in immigration control and enforcement. They are not "for" illegal immigration, despite the nonsense that Breitbart or Alex Jones might be feeding you.

However, that doesn't mean that the majority of Americans want a wall.

I would MUCH rather see that money go towards enforcement at the border and to other immigration-related programs. And I think the immigration process itself needs to be revamped to address exploitation. For instance, why are we targeting the effect and not going after the central cause of that immigration?? Why are we not targeting companies and employers who employ these migrant workers?

If there are no jobs for these people, the problem largely goes away. No sane human being is going to risk a ridiculously-dangerous desert border crossing if there are no jobs for that person when they get to America. We need to stop pretending that this is just an issue with the immigrants and is not an issue being fed and enabled by American employers.

Most Americans continue to oppose U.S. border wall, doubt Mexico would pay for it
Quote:
As was the case throughout the presidential campaign, more Americans continue to oppose (62%) than favor (35%) building a wall along the entire U.S. border with Mexico.
Less than half the public views border wall as an important goal for U.S. immigration policy
Quote:
Only 39% view building a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border as a very or somewhat important goal.
Quote:
The most widely supported goal for U.S. immigration policy is to establish stricter policies to prevent people from overstaying visas. Nearly eight-in-ten (77%) view this as an important goal
Quote:
73% say it is important that those in the U.S. illegally do not get government benefits if they are not qualified to receive them
Quote:
72% say it is important to allow people who came to the U.S. illegally as children to remain in the U.S. and apply for legal status.
Quote:
about six-in-ten (62%) say it is very or somewhat important to establish a way for most people here illegally to stay legally
Quote:
61% say the same about taking in civilian refugees from countries where people are trying to escape violence and war.


Regarding Travel Ban and "decimating ISIS":
Americans want to see terrorism stopped. You will recall that a man named Osama Bin Laden was killed when Obama was the president - and it was a very popular thing.

Let's be clear: attacking terrorism is certainly not a unique issue to Mr. Trump - there isn't a politician out there that disagrees with this.

However, many do not believe that a blanket ban on travel to/from a subset of all Muslim-majority countries is the way to get there. Especially considering the countries where terrorists often come from are not even on this list.

Most white evangelicals approve of Trump travel prohibition and express concerns about extremism
59% disapprove, 38% approve.

Regarding Defense spending:
Most Americans do not want to see an increase in Defense spending (especially at the expense of other programs) - most want cuts in it.
Poll: Americans Oppose Defense Budget Increases
Quote:

A majority of Americans oppose President Donald Trump's proposed budget increases to the Department of Defense at the cost of other departments, a new poll finds.

A CNN/ORC poll out Wednesday finds 58 percent of respondents oppose the administration's plan to increase military spending by cutting funding for the State Department and other agencies.
Trump’s proposed budget does the opposite of what most U.S. taxpayers want
Quote:
Do Americans want to increase or cut military spending?

In contrast to Trump’s $54 billion increase to military spending, in the PPC budget survey, 67 percent cut military spending, with a majority cutting it by $39 billion. While a majority favors trimming homeland security by $2 billion, Trump proposes increasing it.
Americans favor cutting defense spending, not adding billions more, new survey finds
Quote:
The survey, by the University of Maryland’s Program for Public Consultation (PPC), found that while Trump has proposed a $54 billion boost to federal spending for the military, a majority of Americans prefer a cut of $41 billion. While Trump has proposed a $2.8 billion increase for homeland security, a majority of Americans favor a $2 billion cut.
Most Voters Favor Defense Cuts. Most Politicians Don't.
Quote:
A majority of voters surveyed between December 2015 and February 2016 nonetheless said they wanted defense cuts in almost every area of the military, including cutting ground forces by $4 million, nuclear weapons by $3 billion, air power by $2 billion, naval forces by $2 billion and missile defense by $1 billion. Respondents wanted to keep the budgets for special operations forces and the Marines at the same level but sought no increase in any specific military area.

Regarding support for Israel:
Like your other issues, this is vague. The majority of Americans do support Israel, especially compared to support for Palestine. And the majority of Americans think that peace can occur in this region.
5 facts about how Americans view the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

However, that doesn't mean people are happy with the crazy-ass moves that Trump's team has been pulling lately.

The Middle East and Russia: American attitudes on Trump’s foreign policy
63% oppose the move of the embassy to Israel, while 31% support the move.
55% oppose the withdrawal from UNESCO, while 40% are in favor of it.
59% want America to lean to neither side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, while 34% want to favor Israel
Americans seem split on the de-certification of the Iran deal - but most thought it work (55% thought it would reduce the chance of Iran developing nukes, and 70% thought it would serve our national security interests).

Who really wants Trump to recognize Jerusalem? His evangelical supporters at home


Regarding: supporting our law enforcement
Americans are in support of this, sure. So was Obama. That doesn't mean that we can't address issues relating to how our police forces interact with citizens in this country.

You might mistake this as "nonsupport" - but it's actually the opposite. People want to see BETTER policing. That doesn't mean these people do not, also, support police forces around the country.

Again: not unique to Trump. Although, he does like to make this seem like a wedge issue, when it really is not.

Regarding: cracking down on crime in inner cities
Sure - people are in favor of this. Not unique to Trump.

FYI, violent crime has been dropping for decades, even in many big cities. Yes, even under Obama.

Of course, there are some variations in the data - but the trends are clear across the country.

Dueling Claims on Crime Trend

Regarding: bringing back blue-collar manufacturing jobs
It's nice to want things. And this is likely the issue where Trump receives the most widespread support (similar to Bernie).

But you were fooled if you actually believed Trump, of all people (do you realize where he makes ALL of his stuff??? Come on...wake up!), would be able to do this.

Globalization, an insatiable appetite for "cheap things", and automation are all going to prevent us from ever regaining the control we once held on the worldwide manufacturing industry. Also, unless there's another war that decimates the rest of the world (ahem: WW2), the opportunity of 1950 won't present itself to America anytime soon.

It pains me to write this because I come from an area of the country that has been decimated by de-industrializaiton, and I know the realities of what that has done to those regions.

We need to come to grips with reality. We might see some manufacturing return or maintain, but those will be blips in the otherwise overwhelming trend...this ship largely sailed away DECADES ago.

We would be better served by trying to re-purpose, reeducate, retrain, and reinvent these areas of the country, instead of holding out hope that 1955 is returning. Think to the future - try to grow these regions in other ways. Stop giving people FALSE hope! It is wrong.

That said - there could be a bright spot: more efficient manufacturing leading to higher overall output.
Most Americans unaware that as U.S. manufacturing jobs have disappeared, output has grown

I also seriously challenge you on whether this is a "policy" or not - because he has actually never explained how he would do this in a real and legitimate way...but that's neither here nor there.

Manufacturing Jobs Aren’t Coming Back
The Impossibility of Reviving American Manufacturing
Why Donald Trump Is Wrong About Manufacturing Jobs and China


Regarding: decreasing unemployment
What person is against this? Do you recall what unemployment figures looked like ~2009-2010? And what did they look like in 2016/early 2017?

Regarding: decreasing unnecessary taxes and regulations
Define "unnecessary". Most people favor things like environmental protections.


Most Americans favor stricter environmental laws and regulations


Unlike Trump, Americans want strong environmental regulator - Reuters/Ipsos

For Earth Day, here’s how Americans view environmental issues
Quote:
Overall, Americans support protecting the environment, but there are deep partisan divides on the issue.
Quote:
Views about environmental regulations are more partisan today than they were a decade ago.
Quote:
Many Americans view protecting the environment as a top priority, but higher shares cite other issues – like terrorism or the economy – as a top priority.

Regarding: eliminating unfair trade with foreign countries
I think many people are open to trade deals being examined. And results here seem to be mixed.

That said, I don't think most even know what agreements are contained in them. I also doubt Trump himself fully understands the deals, either.

Poll: Americans split on leaving free-trade deals
Quote:
More than 4 in 10 Americans say they don’t know enough to say whether the United States should end its participation in free-trade deals like the North American Free Trade Agreement and the Trans-Pacific Partnership, according to the results of the latest Gallup
Americans continue to favor free trade agreements

It's questionable if America "first" can work (I don't think it can - not in today's world).
‘America First’ is a losing strategy on trade

Regarding: increasing GDP growth and the stock market
No one is against this. And under our last president, we had great GDP and stock market growth. I'm happy to see that Trump has seen this growth continue.

But this is not unique to Trump's agenda.

Last edited by HockeyMac18; 01-04-2018 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:52 PM
 
10,931 posts, read 5,004,728 times
Reputation: 4884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
i do not agree that the tax plan is wildly unpopular.
I do agree that both the republicans and democrats on are record as to the outcome.
Republicans including Trump say it will benefit the economy
Democrats say just the opposite. Nancy Pelosi said it was "Armageddon"


6 months from now we will have an answer.
Actually - we won't know until 2019, and well into 2019 at that (after taxes are due in April).

I'm not sure I'd call it "Armageddon" - but I do see it for what it is. There are some "scraps" thrown towards lower and middle income people, but this is a tax cut FOR (and designed BY) the rich.

I also think it is a bit irresponsible to do this kind of tax cut and not have corresponding cuts anywhere else (in fact, Trump is proposing increases in some areas, such as defense spending).



I see through the charade.

Last edited by HockeyMac18; 01-04-2018 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:27 PM
 
7,059 posts, read 4,087,933 times
Reputation: 9470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
well, we don't know each other so I don't count... but I am certainly a trump supporter.
im happy about the tax cut
I am happy about the roll back of Obama era EOs that throttled down the economy
I am happy about the pro-growh approach
I am happy about Trump pushing congressional republicans to be more aggressive and stop being cowards.
I am happy about intensive vetting of people coming from danger zones around the world
I am happy about Trump calling out the media for their vast and repeated lies
I am happy about every single policy direction Trump has taken.
I am happy with the moves he has made to improve the veterans administration (especially giving vets the right to go to regular doctors instead of VA hospitals.
I am happy with opening ANWR for oil exploration
I am happy with the roll back on National Monuments.

I could go on.

I am not always happy with every single thing he has done with his twitter account, but I am more often happy with it.... and about half the time I am not happy, after 3 or 4 days I get happy because he proves to be right....

I am also very very happy with his approach with North Korea. We have seen the last 4 administrations giving in to NK with assurances it would settle things down, only to find out they start acting up all over again. Trumps approach is absolutely different and I believe its the only valid one. 4 administrations, 2 republican 2 democrat have systematically given NK nuclear ICBMs that can reach America. That isn't partisan. That's bi-partisan stupidity.

I am happy about moving status of Jerusalem off the negotiation table and agreeing to move our embassy there. Its smart. Its proper and I am glad he did it.

I am very happy with the change in engagement rules where our military is in contact with combatants. They had been hamstrung. Now they can act more quickly and with certainty that they aren't going to jail for saving their own lives.

I could continue. There are many many many things to be very happy about TheDonald where POLICY and ACTION are concerned. I aint never been mad at a Christmas package, because the wrapping paper wasn't what I wanted.
The tax plan did not meet his campaign promise. And why would it? That's the domain of the legislative branch. ANWR was part of that too. The general public has a weird inclination of giving credit for legislature to presidents. Easier to just give it a face I guess.

The economy is still just chugging along from the Obama years which is largely just a correction from the recession. Though Trump has said stocks are in a huge bubble. Now that he is taking credit for that bubble it will be interesting when it bursts for the next downward correction.

MSM "lies"(that in most any case are corrected if found to be false) have nothing on what comes out of his administration. He contradicts his own statements, then stands by the contradiction or deflects saying it was just something he heard.

Congressional repubs seem to just be laughing off any push by him.

VA bill was years in the making following exposes by the MSM and had bi-partisan support.

NK - What are you happy about exactly? He has failed to live up to his red line of not tolerating another threat showing his words carried no weight. ICBM that can hit the mainland tested well after that. Just like that he's in a 'my button is bigger than yours' twitter war?
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,549 posts, read 664,231 times
Reputation: 1413
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
A liberal coworker posted this on Facebook last night:



"Descriptions of Donald Trump, from:

- Thomas Barrack Jr, Trump's friend: ďHeís not only crazy, heís stupid.Ē
- Secretary of State Rex Tillerson: "He's a ****ing moron."
- Most every member of the senior staff on repeated occasions, he's "like a child."
- Rupert Murdoch: "What a ****ing moron."
- Steve Bannon: he's lost his mind
- Attorney Gary Cohn: he's dumb as ****.
- National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster: a hopeless idiot

MAGA."
He's doing really well for someone who is so-called "retarded". He didn't even try or want to be President yet, he became President. He's a multi-Billionaire with a gorgeous wife and children. His name and brand a known worldwide. He had a hit television show. We should all be so dumb.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:47 PM
 
2,608 posts, read 3,834,846 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
No worries.

I wasn't talking about your coworker.
Iím aware, but this also solidified my point to an extent. People are rarely as nasty in person as they are online. Would you say some of the not so pleasant things youíve said here to virtual strangers to someone you care for who disagrees with you?

Iím not going to treat people who donít align with me politically any different than anyone else and not agreeing with me is not something worth making me angry, at Leah not with politics. Maybe you just need to learn to relax more?
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:04 PM
 
Location: USA
19,646 posts, read 14,613,662 times
Reputation: 12697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
i do not agree that the tax plan is wildly unpopular.
I do agree that both the republicans and democrats on are record as to the outcome.
Republicans including Trump say it will benefit the economy
Democrats say just the opposite. Nancy Pelosi said it was "Armageddon"


6 months from now we will have an answer.
"6 months" could be 4 years and the people that hate Trump will still be claiming Obama was the reason the market and economy have gone through the roof. Personally Im amazed the we are doing so well over the last year, but Ill give Trump the credit for it. I'll give Obama credit too, for freeing Terrorists, giving billions of dollars to the Iranians, and giving the average family a $2500 a year saving with Obama care
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