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I'm posting tongue-in-cheek on the Amish. They are just an example of people who have special rules under statism yet still manage to survive.
According to the statism doctrine without government at its current form we would all be dead.
Also, the Amish do build using electricity/plumbing in certain situations. Don't believe that hype either.
99% is probably a conservative percentage. What percentage of people are true anarchists, in your opinion?
State lines? Fictional lines on a map. There are many more stories over these raids. You asked for a link I gave you one. Here's a few raids in the name of keeping us safe from 2013 and 2008.
Given your demonstrated propensity for hyperbole RAIDS!!!!! 2013&2008? Yeah, who cares if these people want to drink unpasteurized milk? As long as they are aware of what they are buying I think resources could be better used than hassling the Amish and some hippies.
There has to be some form of government, don't you agree? There is a certain percentage of our population that is nucking futz and would go around hurting other people (small group but can make a big impact) if there weren't laws in place. If I remember correctly you don't believe government should be involved in building roads? How do you propose we have things like that or do you prefer a horse and buggy and shun technology? What falls under the jurisdiction of government is up for debate as it should be, always.
Feds shot first. Why would anyone surrender to people who appeared to intend, and later proved that they intended, to commit murder?
And, yes, they did need a warrant since they did not know that Koresh had committed any crime in their presence or within their view..
They had a warrant. That's what they were there for on Feb 28th.
Koresh was a scumbag. He knew he was picking a armed fight with the government. The rest of the adults knew what they were getting into and the danger they were putting their kids in.
Amazing, absolutely amazing. I find it so amazing that so many people will testify what a crackpot David Koresh was but not a one of you ever met the man. I met the man, he was a customer of mine. All you "heard" in the media was pure fabricated BS. The entire event was due to a shotgun that the ATF wanted but Koresh owned legally. Even the local Sheriff was telling the ATF they have no case against Koresh and to leave it alone. The Sheriff was escorted off of the property and not allowed to return. David was a lot more sane than some of you posting in this thread. He was a very gentle kind of guy as were all of them I met over the years. There was no rape, no drugs. The kids were some of the happiest you'll ever see. What you would have found was a native Texan that was not going to be pushed around by any Gov't thug, a lot of us are like that in Texas. Unfortunately, we knew the Koresh bunch was going to be burned out 2 days before it happened. One of the guys I played wallyball with was in charge of the local armory. He told everybody that the gas they shipped up there was a 2 part gas that leaves an almost napalm type substance. Any spark, any type of fire, cigarette, etc and the place would all but explode in flames. Two days later, it happened just as he described.
But for some of you arm chair generals, why wasn't the local police allowed within 2 miles of the place? Why were Texas State officials not allowed near the place? Nobody was allowed near the place until the Feds came in and run a bulldozer over the entire area leaving absolutely no evidence what happened there. Make no mistake, the Federal Gov't and those in power at the time murdered all of those people. Just like the local Sheriff has testified in court, the shotgun was legal, the Feds had no rights to demand the gun, and if they had just left it alone, Koresh and he were close enough that Koresh would have voluntarily brought the gun to him for examination in a few days. What you probably didn't get to read in "media" is that the Sheriff was on the side of Koresh. The Feds were 100% wrong.
Gentle?
How do YOU know there were no rapes? Victims and survivors say otherwise. You calling them liars?
Do you cry about its' use when the targets are liberal protestors?
I'm guessing not.
Then it's all, "'Murica!!! Yeah!!! Take that you commies!!!"
unlike you, I'm opposed to law enforcement using chemical warfare on US citizens no matter their political affiliation. Its called ethical consistency, you should try it sometime.
Given your demonstrated propensity for hyperbole RAIDS!!!!! 2013&2008? Yeah, who cares if these people want to drink unpasteurized milk? As long as they are aware of what they are buying I think resources could be better used than hassling the Amish and some hippies.
There has to be some form of government, don't you agree? There is a certain percentage of our population that is nucking futz and would go around hurting other people (small group but can make a big impact) if there weren't laws in place. If I remember correctly you don't believe government should be involved in building roads? How do you propose we have things like that or do you prefer a horse and buggy and shun technology? What falls under the jurisdiction of government is up for debate as it should be, always.
Your government cares if folks sell and drink unpasteurized milk. That's why they'll storm your farm if you do so. No word on whether the cows are fined/caged too.
I don't want to hijack this thread with a discussion of my philosophical principles.
Waco is just one blip on the radar of what happens when society is structured with an involuntary government that has a monopoly on force and no accountability.
It's basic psychology: if you can do what you want and don't have to answer for your actions even the most well-intentioned person is going to find himself towing company line.
Your government cares if folks sell and drink unpasteurized milk. That's why they'll storm your farm if you do so. No word on whether the cows are fined/caged too.
I don't want to hijack this thread with a discussion of my philosophical principles.
Waco is just one blip on the radar of what happens when society is structured with an involuntary government that has a monopoly on force and no accountability.
It's basic psychology: if you can do what you want and don't have to answer for your actions even the most well-intentioned person is going to find himself towing company line.
You're not in the US? Government cares about a lot of things I don't because there are some citizens that do. I don't think pot should be illegal but right now it's majority rules. It's a trade off sometimes. Sometimes government is just downright inept.
I'm interested on what you mean by "monopoly of force'? Are you advocating citizens using force? Do you think Koresh was within his rights to do what he did? I see Waco as resting on the heads of the religious more than anything. Of course I'll see it that way because I was a child in a cult when all the adults around me looked the other way like that shopkeeper sticking up for Koresh. How about you call these abusers out once in awhile?
It's also why I think Sandyhook was fake. Soon after they bulldozed the school down. I found that odd.
What made me doubt it was all the parents and family members smiling after the event and Mr. Parker having to get into character and act sad before an interview just hours after his daughter was supposedly gunned down. None of them were grieving at all.
I don't think Koresh was a decent man in any way. I don't think the government is telling the whole story either though. I am a victim of child rape and was forced to marry my rapist, but he was a government worker and the government covered for him. So, I tend to doubt that the government cares anything about rape victims unless it serves its agenda of the moment.
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