Vid shows the perspective of a homeless person. The fine line between staying sane & losing it & resorting to drugs. (interviews, death)

[Supachai]

Originally Posted by MetroWord

It's not that they choose or want to be homeless. It's that they have set their standard of life so low that they have little incentive to strive for better.

Anyone who has ever worked with and help the homeless know that they often time self sabotage, most likely on a subconscious level, to maintain the status quo of being homeless. Another way to describe this is learned helplessness.

I've dealt with many homeless and occasionally you will meet one who seems to be basically normal, though generally, they are either very messed up mentally or have social attitudes that push them way outside the mainstream. Many just don't have the qualities that would make them well suited for regular society. Sometimes it's through no fault of their own but many times they simply just don't want to be part of the society around them. The longer they are separated from what we consider a normal lifestyle, the harder it is for them to go back, even when they decide that they want to.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by MetroWord

Um, false dichotomy. Either the standard of life is rock bottom homeless or millionaire. If you don't like what you hear, then at least present me a counter argument that doesn't involve sarcasm.

I have worked with and tried to help many homeless people. I have even brought them into my home. In my experience, it is even harder to get them to strive for a life beyond homelessness than for a camel to go through the eye of the needle. Refer to my earlier post in this thread where I talked about the young man I literally handed him a job in construction at $14/hour with full benefits after 6 months and free housing if he agreed to travel with the crew to different cities to work. On the one hand, he swore up and down very excitedly that he really really really want that job. On the other hand, he did everything he could to not have that job.

I saw your post. I thought about it a bit.
If it was a young man, the COMMITMENT that job required, might have scared him away.
DID HE REALLY WANT to be a "construction worker?" Did he really look forward to be day after day in the line of work he wasn't thrilled about to begin with?
Yes, the perspective of pay might have sounded thrilling, he might have been even extra-enthusiastic to make you happy, but the more he thought about it, the less he wanted it, even as his "ticket" out of the misery he was in.
See, when it comes to this trade off - the misery of homelessness vs misery of doing what you don't want to do day after day, one will not necessarily take the latter choice. Particularly if it's a younger person with no dependents, and particularly if they don't have anything else outmapped for them in the long run.
( I've spent enough of time with youngsters to take note of these things, so it's just my observation.)

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Exactly! My son has a friend who isn't quite right, he never has been but he's a sweet guy. He's in his 40's and for the last 15 years he's lived in a trailer on his step-father's property. His dad passed away without a will so his daughter inherited everything and evicted her half brother from the trailer. He ended up just walking around town carrying a plastic bag with his clothes.

My son heard about it and tried to find low income housing for him, but there was nothing so my son bought an old ford explorer for a few hundred dollars, fixed it up and gave it to him so now he at least has a car to sleep in. The guy doesn't drink or use drugs, he's not a criminal but he's just not all there and he's gotten worse as he's gotten older. He can't get a job and he can't pull himself up by his bootstraps no matter how many people might tell him to do so.

Millions like him- just "snapping out of it" is not an option.

Not dangerous to himself or others.

Not crazy enough to qualify for much of anything.

He seems to fit the stats with link within the previously linked story of "Homeless City":

2/3 male

30% mentally ill

Only 26% sleep in shelters

48 is the average life expectancy

[boxus]

Originally Posted by erasure

I saw your post. I thought about it a bit.
If it was a young man, the COMMITMENT that job required, might have scared him away.
DID HE REALLY WANT to be a "construction worker?" Did he really look forward to be day after day in the line of work he wasn't thrilled about to begin with?
Yes, the perspective of pay might have sounded thrilling, he might have been even extra-enthusiastic to make you happy, but the more he thought about it, the less he wanted it, even as his "ticket" out of the misery he was in.
See, when it comes to this trade off - the misery of homelessness vs misery of doing what you don't want to do day after day, one will not necessarily take the latter choice. Particularly if it's a younger person with no dependents, and particularly if they don't have anything else outmapped for them in the long run.
( I've spent enough of time with youngsters to take note of these things, so it's just my observation.)

Fair enough, let someone like him starve to death for all I care.

I agree with the poster; I have in the past been involved with homeless people and even after being given a job on a platter, many did all they could to avoid it. Many just do not want to work.

Here in Miami, numerous openings with zero background and drug checks for jobs like cooks, and these homeless people will not even think about having to actually work.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Oh yeah those "transient units" worked out just great

"In Los Angeles, many cleanups are conducted by the Homeless Outreach and Proactive Engagement, or HOPE, teams, which include police officers, sanitation and outreach workers and mental health providers. They offer shelter and services to camp residents. The presence of officers intimidates homeless people, making it harder to get them off the streets, some outreach workers say.

Despite a strict protocol against displacing homeless people or destroying their property, officers still push tent cities from block to block, homeless people say, and sanitation workers throw away important belongings, including IDs and computers. Eight of the 10 outreach teams the city funded last year included police officers."
https://outline.com/NHWbha

Sanitation workers are challenged to deal with the rodents, human waste, garbage and used needles generated 34,000 people living in make shift encampments.

Most folk do not react well to shelters being erected in their back yards and fight city hall. This is true everywhere.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by boxus

Fair enough, let someone like him starve to death for all I care.

I agree with the poster; I have in the past been involved with homeless people and even after being given a job on a platter, many did all they could to avoid it. Many just do not want to work.

Here in Miami, numerous openings with zero background and drug checks for jobs like cooks, and these homeless people will not even think about having to actually work.

Or may be many just don't want to do the jobs they are offered?
See, some of us have more choices than other, we are all born into different families, with different circumstances. Some accept their lot, some don't.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

Sorry, no. It's the way those people choose to treat themselves. The only thing "this country" does is to allow them to do so. We should bring back the asylums and institutions that housed the mentally ill in the past-and expand them to house drug addicts. Sadly-this is something that liberals helped destroy 50 years ago.

It's California-noted for nice weather. Set up some big, tall fences in the middle of nowhere, put up some big tents and house the homeless there. I hear Sheriff Joe is available, he could help show them how. Clean the mess up in the cities for productive people. Get the bums, the filth, the human waste, needles and violence out of decent areas.

Sheriff Joe didn't do jack about the homeless in Maricopa county so miss me with that. You can't put people in asylums unless they are in immediate danger of harming themselves or others, and when they no longer meet that criteria you must release them

And it was not "liberals" who destroyed your wonderful world of forced confinement in asylums, it was the Supreme Court:

O'Connor v. Donaldson - 1975 SCOTUS States could not involuntarily commit citizens to a psychiatric institution if they were not a danger to themselves or others and were capable of living by themselves, or with the aid of responsible family or friends.

The decision was unanimous and at the time there were 4 republican and 5 democratic justices on the Supreme Court.

[natalie469]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

Sorry, no. It's the way those people choose to treat themselves. The only thing "this country" does is to allow them to do so. We should bring back the asylums and institutions that housed the mentally ill in the past-and expand them to house drug addicts. Sadly-this is something that liberals helped destroy 50 years ago.

It's California-noted for nice weather. Set up some big, tall fences in the middle of nowhere, put up some big tents and house the homeless there. I hear Sheriff Joe is available, he could help show them how. Clean the mess up in the cities for productive people. Get the bums, the filth, the human waste, needles and violence out of decent areas.

Sorry, this was Reagan who was responsible for this.

[boxus]

Originally Posted by erasure

Or may be many just don't want to do the jobs they are offered?
See, some of us have more choices than other, we are all born into different families, with different circumstances. Some accept their lot, some don't.

I said that is fair, therefore I do not care if they starve (for those in which the situation applies).

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

Sanitation workers are challenged to deal with the rodents, human waste, garbage and used needles generated 34,000 people living in make shift encampments.

Most folk do not react well to shelters being erected in their back yards and fight city hall. This is true everywhere.

When did I say it's a good idea for people to sleep on the sidewalk? The cold hard truth is that shelters as they currently exist are not an acceptable alternative to sleeping rough for most homeless people. We can accept that and continue to walk over the homeless on our way to work, or we can provide some sort of shelter that they will be willing to stay in.

We can't afford to build tiny houses or condos for all of them, but maybe we could construct tent cities outside of residential areas. Provide showers and porta potties and have the camp fenced with only one entrance and one exit. Give residents an ID card and make them show it or they can't get in, have a metal detector at the entrance to keep weapons out of the camp, but once they are in there let them do what they want as long as they don't disturb or harm others.

Santa Barbara has had a 'safe parking lot' for homeless who have vehicles or RV's to sleep in for several years and it seems to be a success. Living in a parking lot amid Santa Barbara's wealth is a kind of middle-class homelessness Maybe providing help while the homeless before they lose everything including their vehicle is part of the solution?