Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When the Tesla Power wall came out, I was all excited, it would have solved a particular problem I was having at my CA farm. When I inquired about permitting, I was informed the Sacramento was against the product because it would "allow people to build cabins out in the woods and power them without government knowledge". Don't discount government influence against batteries, they know how much control they will lose in a battery dominate world.
Ok .......fine, replace "my bank account" with "people's bank accounts".
Happy now?
Not really. We have always invested in new technologies. We aren't going to quit nor should we. When "we should live in the past" types like yourself are lead along, you never have answers.
Trying to generate enough power to heat your house with solar in a cold climate is going to be uber expensive even with the tax credits and a grid tied system. The introduction of batteries adds another huge layer of expense and you are dependent on the whims of mother nature.
It's not doable large scale and certainly would not be doable small scale.
It is being done. Yes, it's expensive right now. Prices are also just like with all newer technologies, coming down while improving.
Quote:
That said there may be a place for these batteries, gas, coal and nuclear plants are cheaper to run they more they run. You can reduce the capital investment in the plants if the batteries are cheaper than the plants.
Batteries or something else, we are no longer going to be investing in coal powered plants.
When the Tesla Power wall came out, I was all excited, it would have solved a particular problem I was having at my CA farm. When I inquired about permitting, I was informed the Sacramento was against the product because it would "allow people to build cabins out in the woods and power them without government knowledge". Don't discount government influence against batteries, they know how much control they will lose in a battery dominate world.
Yeah, I doubt you were told this. You just made it up.
....and if the batteries have been depleted and Mother nature has not cooperated to replenish them. What is the plan then when you need that power?
It doesn't matter what generates the electricity that is being stored. I never said anywhere in my post that I thought that fossil fuels were going anywhere anytime soon. What the batteries allow a utility to do is store excess generated electricity and use it to service a peak time.
I'm sure you are well aware that traditional power plants work most efficiently when they provide a steady output. The issue is that demand is never steady. There are times the plants have to be throttled back and other times additional plants (the aforementioned 'peakers') brought online. What if you could smooth out the demand curve by storing excess generation and then releasing it when it is needed? That's what the batteries do.
Everyone is still reacting to the hyperbole of the headline and attacking the technology because of it. The reality is that this concept could work everywhere and with traditional power generation. California is an example where renewable energy makes a ton of sense and solar output is now so high that there were times this year that the wholesale cost of energy went negative (a problem Germany also now deals with where they generate so much energy from their wind and solar farms on top of their traditional supplies that they sometimes find themselves having to pay neighboring countries to take the excess power).
Let's assume a traditional power grid serviced by a mix of fossil fuel plants and nuclear. Those plants produce x amount of power. Demand fluctuates anywhere from x-5% to x+5%. Would you rather build an entire natural gas plant to cover the times you are x+5% or do you think it would be smarter to build a battery farm to capture the excess from the time you are x-5% and then use that stored energy to cover the times you are x+5%? Hint: the capital investment and geographic footprint of the battery farm is WAY less than the cost of building the power plant.
It doesn't matter what generates the electricity that is being stored. I never said anywhere in my post that I thought that fossil fuels were going anywhere anytime soon. What the batteries allow a utility to do is store excess generated electricity and use it to service a peak time.
I'm sure you are well aware that traditional power plants work most efficiently when they provide a steady output. The issue is that demand is never steady. There are times the plants have to be throttled back and other times additional plants (the aforementioned 'peakers') brought online. What if you could smooth out the demand curve by storing excess generation and then releasing it when it is needed? That's what the batteries do.
Everyone is still reacting to the hyperbole of the headline and attacking the technology because of it. The reality is that this concept could work everywhere and with traditional power generation. California is an example where renewable energy makes a ton of sense and solar output is now so high that there were times this year that the wholesale cost of energy went negative (a problem Germany also now deals with where they generate so much energy from their wind and solar farms on top of their traditional supplies that they sometimes find themselves having to pay neighboring countries to take the excess power).
Let's assume a traditional power grid serviced by a mix of fossil fuel plants and nuclear. Those plants produce x amount of power. Demand fluctuates anywhere from x-5% to x+5%. Would you rather build an entire natural gas plant to cover the times you are x+5% or do you think it would be smarter to build a battery farm to capture the excess from the time you are x-5% and then use that stored energy to cover the times you are x+5%? Hint: the capital investment and geographic footprint of the battery farm is WAY less than the cost of building the power plant.
Thank you for the breath of common sense. I expect that this thread will die now..LoL!
And the manufacture and disposal of batteries is more toxic than fossil fuels. Brilliant. And nuclear power certainly has nothing to do with toxic.
Think a little harder and come up with something that really IS more sustainable and environmentally friendly, Einstein. Don't be telling us to smoke hemlock as a substitute for tobacco.
"California, the state that helped birth the global boom in battery-toting electric vehicles, is trying to spark a similar transformation for utilities. And that spells trouble for power plants all across the U.S. that run on natural gas. The California Public Utilities Commission approved an order Thursday that will require PG&E Corp., the state’s biggest utility, to change the way it supplies power when demand peaks. Instead of relying on electricity from three gas-fired plants run by Calpine Corp., PG&E will have to use batteries or other non-fossil fuel resources to keep the lights on in the most-populated U.S. state."
I support this idea but I don't think we are close to seeing a major impact to natural gas as gas is inexpensive, plentiful and a fairly clean fuel to burn. Thank you Cali for your initiative, however, might be a bit premature.
And the manufacture and disposal of batteries is more toxic than fossil fuels. Brilliant. And nuclear power certainly has nothing to do with toxic.
Think a little harder and come up with something that really IS more sustainable and environmentally friendly, Einstein. Don't be telling us to smoke hemlock as a substitute for tobacco.
Rehashing arguments that have been addressed many times aren't exactly signs of brilliance but most certainly are common place.
More power to them. Though I feel its impractical I'm no expert in battery tech and if they think they can pull it off with a net energy gain, go for it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
